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OT – is the “new” Mac Pro a failure
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[Mitch Ives] “This post would have been lot more useful if people who actually HAVE the nMP commented, especially those that have both the new and the old… while those who don’t have a nMP refrained from positing an unqualified opinion… but then that’s just me I’m sure…”
Herb, could you tell us about the nMP you own, and specifically how that nMP in practice limits your current workflows?
I’m just not seeing it here with my nMP. I can see abstractly how one could imagine a nMP would be limiting, but in practice I am as empowered as I was with any of my old towers. I can certainly see how for certain small niche workflows the nMP would be limiting, but not for the vast majority of today’s workflows. But I wait to be enlightened by you.
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Yeah the g tech ones go much much faster but we have them set at raid 6 at the moment. When we had them at raid 0 it was way over 1000mb/s
Co-owner at Pollen Studio
http://www.pollenstudio.co.uk -
[James Culbertson] “Herb, could you tell us about the nMP you own, and specifically how that nMP in practice limits your current workflows?”
I will do that when you tell me about the 2010 Macpro 8 core you own, the one with the pciSSD Boot Drive and the Nvidia Titan GPU. Since the original post was seeking to compare that setup to a nMP then according to your logic unless you own both and can compare you shouldn’t be posting. Since I was pretty much faced with the same choice as the OP, I did my research and made my choice. This isn’t like a software UI, either the hardware has certain features or it doesn’t. I don’t need to spend 6K on a system that doesn’t work for me to know that the system doesn’t work for me.
[James Culbertson] ” I can certainly see how for certain small niche workflows the nMP would be limiting, but not for the vast majority of today’s workflows”
OK, so the nMP works for the majority, but an upgraded MP works for that same majority plus the small niche. And I’m supposed to pay more for that system that works in less workflows because … ???
[James Culbertson] “But I wait to be enlightened by you.”
Here’s the enlightening part – name another computer that’s actively being compared to it’s 6 year old EOl’d predecessor and it’s not clear cut which one a user should buy.
Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
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nothin’ attached to nothin’
“Deciding the spine is the process of editing” F. Bieberkopf -
[Herb Sevush] “Here’s the enlightening part – name another computer that’s actively being compared to it’s 6 year old EOl’d predecessor and it’s not clear cut which one a user should buy.”
Well, you are doing the comparison. I’m not sure many others are, who actually own a nMP. Maybe you should try to get your hands on one so that you are talking from actual experience. I’d sure take you more seriously if you were to do so.
I’ve worked on the 8 core 2010 (but not owned). I wouldn’t place it (or any other couple year old Mac) anywhere in the same ballpark in its stock configuration… does not make sense from an empirical viewpoint.
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[James Culbertson] “Well, you are doing the comparison. I’m not sure many others are, who actually own a nMP.”
Why don’t you go back and read the original post. I didn’t invent this notion, the original OP posted an article by a Mac website that called the nMP “a failure.” Here it is again …
https://www.macobserver.com/tmo/article/the-new-mac-pro-is-a-failure
[James Culbertson] “I’ve worked on the 8 core 2010 (but not owned). I wouldn’t place it (or any other couple year old Mac) anywhere in the same ballpark in its stock configuration…”
Again, read the article. Nobody is comparing the nMP to a stock 2010, they are comparing it to an upgraded 2010 because buying an upgraded 2010 is way cheaper than a nMP and comes out as either equivalent or superior on a number of benchmark tests.
The original OP was asking which choice he should make, and while I don’t own a nMP and you do, I do own an upgraded 2010 and you don’t. So in terms of this comparison we are fairly equivalent in terms of our authority.
My other point is that this is a choice many editors are still making and the answer is not clear cut in either direction … and what does that say about the nMP that this is still a subject for discussion.
[James Culbertson] ” Maybe you should try to get your hands on one so that you are talking from actual experience. I’d sure take you more seriously if you were to do so.”
Sure, send me the 6K and I’ll be glad to do the tests. Otherwise, I guess I’ll just have to live with the knowledge that you don’t take me seriously.
Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
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nothin’ attached to nothin’
“Deciding the spine is the process of editing” F. Bieberkopf -
What would you recommend for this MP if anything to give it some more life for FCP X and other pro apps?
I assume I need a usb 3 card and maybe a different graphic card.
Mac Pro, macbook pro, Imacs (i7); Canon 5D Mark III/70D, Panasonic AG-HPX170/AG-HPX250P, Canon HV40, Sony Z7U/VX2000/PD170; FCP 6 certified; FCP X write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.
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[Tom Sefton] “Yeah the g tech ones go much much faster but we have them set at raid 6 at the moment. When we had them at raid 0 it was way over 1000mb/s”
I should have been more clear… we’re getting over 1000 in RAID 5, not RAID 0…
Mitch Ives
Insight Productions Corp.“Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things.” – Winston Churchill
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[Herb Sevush] “Why don’t you go back and read the original post. I didn’t invent this notion, the original OP posted an article by a Mac website that called the nMP “a failure.” Here it is again …
https://www.macobserver.com/tmo/article/the-new-mac-pro-is-a-failure
I do hope that people are reading the article. It’s very specific, well-reasoned, well-documented.
Although, that said, I think you stick the landing on the conclusion in an earlier post, Herb:
[Herb Sevush] “Name another computer that’s actively being compared to it’s 6 year old EOl’d predecessor and it’s not clear cut which one a user should buy.”
It. Has. Never. Happened. Before. Ever.
Yet it’s happening with this computer regularly, at the author’s site, ours, and others.
And yes, there are millions of people who embrace this as the best computer Apple has ever released. That’s not news. That’s NORMAL. That’s how it SHOULD be.
But, really, other than the year Apple dropped the number of slots from 6 to 3 (1997 was it?), I can’t think of a single new model that has made so many people so upset.
Other than than FCPX and pulling the plug on the clone program, I can’t think of ANYTHING that Apple has done that has made as many people as upset as the “new” Mac Pro has.
The difference THAT time (halving the number of slots) is that there were so many obvious benefits to the new model that people bought in as quickly as it was feasible. Which admittedly wasn’t always feasible very quickly (Apple made it harder to use outboard chassis with that new model)…but overall, barely a ripple in the industry.
The difference THIS time is that, YEARS later, the new model has failed to universally make its case for unambiguous superiority. Can we at least agree on that much?
It also has the unique distinction of actually chasing career-long Mac advocates from the platform.
The biggest irony of all is that, back a few years ago when we were wondering if Apple was ever going to update the Mac Pro — remember? Tim Cook publicly said that they were working on something, and we were gonna love it. The first time in company history that I can recall Apple acknowledging that ANY customers exist, much less PRO customers….and THIS is what we got.
So I was a little surprised to see no comment at all when Tim Cook said that he honestly doesn’t understand why anyone would buy a computer when they could buy an iPad Pro instead.
Money quote: “No, really. Why would you?”
Yes yes, this was somewhat rhetorical…and amusingly ironic in light of him saying that MSFT was clueless for offering an iPad Pro a couple of years before Apple did. LOL
We knew then that he was just funnin’ us of course. Classic Apple FUD Translation Tip: that thing that Apple is pissing on today? It’ll be their next major product release.
And sure, one reason not to bring Tim’s quote up is because Apple is always going to give us another reason to wonder whether they care about keeping “people like me” as customers…because they don’t….
…but it’s irrelevant, because Apple will still find ways to delight people who have the good fortune to have the needs that Apple feels like meeting for its OWN purposes.
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Guys you’re never going to convince Herb.
Not that he can’t see the arguments, he MOST certainly can. But his value system is set. Done. And it’s NOT going to change. The things that have made him a success over decades – the things that have kept his client list and his bank account healthy are NOT the things that the NMP vs another Mac Pro Tower is going to provide that make a difference to him in the least.
He believes in and perfectly understands how to extract value (nice value too) from big fat arrays of heavy duty cards in a big fat chassis as close as possible to a CPU which in turn is bolted as closely as possible to one or more GPUs and Big Power Units all nestled in racks and towers in air conditioned offices with big heavy monitors that used to be CRTs but now are flat screens because THAT era ended and it didn’t make any sense to chase it. Big space, lots of plugs and power strips. Comfy client couches. Wired phones at the edit stations,
Because for decades that was the smart way to work. And it STILL is in lots of cases today. It ABSOLUTELY still is today. There is NOTHING wrong with working that way. The lions share of TV and Movies and tons of other great stuff is still made EXACTLY this way and it works. Period. End of story.
Yes, forces are swirling around that say that in the coming months and years we’ll all be working somewhat differently. The office and the desk won’t be AS necessary – as internet connected overnight everyting, laptops, tablets,watching rushes on your phone, and shooting pickups on cameras that cost less the breakfast craft services budget – continues to evolve.
But that’s NOT what Herb is doing.
If he changed what would he get? More mobility? I suspect he could care less. Less power consumption? Doubt he even considers it. Slightly lower office rent? That matters to shoe string operations, not so much to established businesses.
So let it go. He’s totally right from his perspective. And the guys pushing back are also right from theirs. That’s the magic. Two differing views are both totally correct.
Wisdom is sometimes just noticing that – and stopping all the angst.
It was important in my mind to push back when people were saying a Mac based video editing solution based on FCP X and modern Apple hardware couldn’t (and never would) cut the mustard. They were utterly wrong and time has proved that. To do it all over again based on some obsessive desire to convince something that Box A is “lamer” than Box B in a spec war is silly. Fine, you can make a smarter decision, buy a spoonfull of higher performance so you can go home at at 5pm instead of 5:15 – right up until the game changes next Thursday and you’re AGAIN behind the curve because the guy who used to be 15 minutes behind you is now 18 minutes ahead. The wisdom is in understanding that you ARE going to get stuck in traffic either way. Count on it.
My 2 cents.
Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com – video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.
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That was lovely Bill. A few caveats …
[Bill Davis] “He believes in and perfectly understands how to extract value (nice value too) from big fat arrays of heavy duty cards in a big fat chassis as close as possible to a CPU which in turn is bolted as closely as possible to one or more GPUs and Big Power Units all nestled in racks and towers in air conditioned offices with big heavy monitors that used to be CRTs but now are flat screens because THAT era ended and it didn’t make any sense to chase it. Big space, lots of plugs and power strips. Comfy client couches. Wired phones at the edit stations,”
If only I could live up to your expectations of me. The truth is not quite so sublime. It’s been many years since I gave up my NYC office with it’s multiple edit bays. Currently I work at home, in a lovely room with a single edit bay – the old client couch is downstairs in the living room and there isn’t a wired phone to be seen.
[Bill Davis] “If he changed what would he get? More mobility? I suspect he could care less. Less power consumption? Doubt he even considers it. Slightly lower office rent? That matters to shoe string operations, not so much to established businesses.”
I do consider power consumption, for moral as well as financial reasons, but with one system the differences aren’t that much – the air conditioner takes more power than anything else. Office rent is no longer an issue and as for mobility you are quite correct that I don’t care at all.
But while your assessment of me is pretty much correct this has little to do with this current thread. We are not comparing my system to a MacBook Pro, we are comparing it to Apple’s new workstation, which is just as stationary as mine.
[Bill Davis] “forces are swirling around that say that in the coming months and years we’ll all be working somewhat differently. The office and the desk won’t be AS necessary – as internet connected overnight everything, laptops, tablets,watching rushes on your phone, and shooting pickups on cameras that cost less the breakfast craft services budget – continues to evolve.
But that’s NOT what Herb is doing.”
I’ve been working remotely since before there was a commercial internet – Fax, Fed-Ex and sneaker net. Since I’m one of the fortunate few who has almost never worked with clients in the room I’ve been dreaming of cloud editing before there was such a term. But one thing has never changed for me – the need for large screens (plural) both for monitoring and for the GUI. You are correct when you say I am set in my ways — until someone comes up with a way for me to see as clearly on an Iphone as I can on a dedicated 23″ monitor I will continue to need what I need, and I will not be constrained by what any one vendor thinks I need.
Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
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nothin’ attached to nothin’
“Deciding the spine is the process of editing” F. Bieberkopf
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