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OT: End of Prosumer Camcorders???
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Again Dave, you’re talking about something you don’t know anything about (while throwing around words like ‘fool’ and ‘sucker’ around unnecessarily, I might add). The 7D changed the body style dramatically over the 5D. I’ve got quick access to all the iris settings, shutter settings, ISO settings, and surprise, it handles low light like a champ. After setting up qmaster to handle all my cores, the conversion process from h264 to prores is fairly painless via compressor.
If I had taken whatever canon handed me, I would have picked up a 5D last year. I waited for the 7D, specifically because of the 30p/frame rate issues that have been mentioned previously in this thread. This camera is excellent for commercial and promo image shoots – without the large size and light loss I experience with my HVX200/Letus Extreme.
Does H264 suck for video editing? Of course it does. That’s why we have compressor. HD video from DSLR’s is a new tool and it requires a new mindset to using it.
Before you criticize, I suggest you grab yourself a 7D, throw a nice 50mm L lens on it, and take it into the field at night during a live shot at a crime scene (or some other dramatic type background), and just shoot b-roll, with no lights (and if you want to go handheld, try a steadytracker extreme or something like that). Then lets see how long you last not using not using that footage in your next image spot.
Of course Canon has great ‘video’ cameras. Those are completely different beasts. There’s a sacrifice to size, and that’s a reduction in features. A benefit is, you don’t have to set up a 100k shoot to get cinematic style HD video. Until you’ve worked with it, I suggest you refrain from such heavy criticism. You’re making the crow you might have to eat later unnecessarily large.
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I don’t know why you keep getting so bent out of shape about what canon COULD be doing. Guess what? As soon as this technology is available in a comparably priced video camera…fine, I’ll use it. But at this point in time, it isn’t. I’d rather have it available somewhere rather than nowhere.
Rather than being so pissed off that you can shoot high quality video with a digital SLR…I’ll actually go out and shoot it.
Brian
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I know, right? You could also point out that Final Cut should/could support editing via H.264. Apple sure pushed that codec down our throats hard enough a few years ago. That doesn’t make me a sucker to Apple, that just means Apple still has work to do. I’m not going to refuse to work in FCP because of it.
I also think it would be pretty awesome to have a pontoon boat capable car. That doesn’t mean I’d only drive it on rivers, but the option would be nice!
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I don’t think you’re gonna “get it” no matter what anybody says. This is a prosumer camera capable of making beautiful cinematic shots similar to ones found on much more expensive professional cameras.
This isn’t an ENG camera – and nobody is trying to sell it as such.
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Dave,
I really think the point here is that this DSLR camera is just one tool in the arsenal. And especially with the 7D now, a VERY inexpensive one at that. I paid for mine twice over on the first shoot. Not to mention it is a great still camera. I am doing a heavy amount of posting with clients who are shooting spots with the 5D and now the 7D. They are truly awesome in every respect and have some of the best looking images I have ever seen, especially for 30 and 60 second television spots. They look and feel like they were shot with a 35mm film camera. The DOF possibilities, the low light capabilities, the small, inobtrusive form factor and awesome color reproduction are all deal breakers. I think the purpose of this thread was to point to the demise of Prosumer camcorders, and I believe that day has come. I feel sorry for the people still buying 20K to 50K video cameras. As you state, Canon could own the world by putting the same 35mm chip in a real camcorder that could accept all forms of Canon lenses. RED has dallied way too long in coming out with the next generation of their product line. But yes, I think the day of the camcorder is just about over.
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Nehalem Octocore 12 GB Ram, Nvidia card, MBP, MXO, MXO2 mini, Windows Vista Adobe Studio CS4, Vegas 9.0, Lightwave 9.6, Sound Forge 9, Acid Pro 7, Continuum 6, Boris Red 4, Combustion 2008, Sapphire Effects -
“Sorry but you are so wrong. I don’t care if it was a matchbox with a pinhole producing pictures, I’m going on what they look like.”-Peter
Yes as an editor pretty pictures are always preferable. But if you want to use that logic we should all shoot with something like a Panavision Genisis, or a Thomson Viper, but that just isn’t practical, or necessary.
And while the Cannon looks good under controlled circumstances, I would rather have a standard ENG layout camera that shoots a lesser quality image for shooting in uncontrolled situations like breaking news, racing, action sports or shooting handheld for long periods of time. I think the odds of coming home with properly framed shots in these situations is better with an ENG layout, and what good is all that quality if its not in the frame?
The Cannon looked great on your snooker piece, but it seemed like the shoot was optimized to highlight the cameras strong points. How would it look at the Reno Air Races, or shooting an industrial high speed canning line? In these enviros the CMOS induced rolling shutter artifacts might be a deal breaker due to the fast repetitive motion of the subjects. So under these conditions I would rather have a CCD.
I just wanted to throw a few of these things into the mix and demonstrate it isn’t always about the best picture. -
Dave is making perfectly good points here!
I shoot alot of surf footage for the larger surf companies. Loooong lenses and very tight shots of fast moving subjects. I need to almost lay into and on top of my camera. I’ve tried the 7D myself and can say it would be useless for me. A good picture is only half of what a good video camera should be.
However! These puppies are great if shooting in the surf and under the water with a housing!
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[Dave LaRonde] “but doesn’t anybody GET IT? Canon knows how to make video cameras!”
[Dave LaRonde] “Have you forgotten that Canon knows how to make video cameras, yet they chose to put all this miraculous stuff in a still camera? “
Not sure YOU understand it.
Canons SLR department and Video camera departments are DIFFERENT DEPARTMENTS. Im personally betting with time that they till do some merging and we will some cameras aimed toward video people what will use the SLR lenses.
I have to agree with Brian to me the end result is what matters most, and if I can get an amazing video image then why not look into how the device fits into the type of work you do.
For the video work I do a Canon DSLR would be just fine, for what you do it my not be fine, not everybody is doing the same type of video work you are so why are you knocking the type of equipment others choose to use.
In the end it is the person that does the art not the camera. I would take video shot on a flip camera by a talented experienced cinematographer any day then take footage from a red camera shot by somebody who has no idea what they are doing.
There are no “technical solutions” to your “artistic problems”.
Don’t let technology get in the way of your creativity! -
I hope you guys are enjoying your argument, because I sure am. From my perspective you’ve all really opened a door to this issue and shed some great light on some points that I hadn’t as yet had time to think about.
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[Scott Sheriff] “”Sorry but you are so wrong. I don’t care if it was a matchbox with a pinhole producing pictures, I’m going on what they look like.”-Peter
Yes as an editor pretty pictures are always preferable. But if you want to use that logic we should all shoot with something like a Panavision Genisis, or a Thomson Viper, but that just isn’t practical, or necessary. “
Nope you’ve got my logic entirely the wrong way round.
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