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OT: Are We Finally Seeing the End of Avid?
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Avid is still very much alive and kicking in my neck of the woods.
More work than ever. Rates are great. Lots of people churning out amazing content on the regular.
Im amazed at how many people are rooting for their demise.
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[Robin S. Kurz] “I also know that the Avids have been the only edit suites that have ever been down for any extended period of time over the years.”
This is a ridiculous statement.
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I believe Avid’s challenge is revenue growth. For one, keeping existing customer base which is studio, broadcast, etc. and getting more money out of them as well as growing into other markets with solutions. It is the latter they are facing more competition. I can do a basic search on Film Industry Network for any given city (even LA) and will see in order of jobs available favoring Adobe and Apple. Now we all want to work on features, studio work and such, but that’s not where all the jobs are unless you are in those cities. If you look at the overall media industry – the system use is not Avid. I did a search for editing jobs in Boston and there were 185 jobs for Adobe, 27 for Final Cut Pro and 21 for Avid. So once those 21 jobs are filled, the thousands of new job seekers hitting the marketplace can either wait for the next Avid job or go for one of the other jobs.
Avid’s strategy of releasing free (feature reduced) versions of Pro Tools and Media Composer is recognizing the fact that the next/younger generation are unaware or have no experience in using them (more MC than PT, I would think). Also, the whole revenue strategy of the Avid Marketplace is based on having a large number of seats and developers. As of now, Media Composer has the fewest seats and developers. Maybe that will change.
Also, I do not believe Pro Tools and Media Composer will ever go away, it a long-shot it may just not be Avid.
Michael
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[Neil Goodman] “Im amazed at how many people are rooting for their demise.”
Not rooting for a demise but just seeing what’s happening outside of film and broadcast. I used to make a ton of money sitting behind a Media Composer. Now there are none to sit behind. I have not had a paying MC job in over 3 years. Maybe four. But I have been busy all the same.
As far as the Orad acquisition, there were rumblings both in and outside of Avid that was merely cover for poor Q4 2014 results. Not sure about the logic there, but those were the rumbles.
Scott Witthaus
Senior Editor/Post Production Supervisor
1708 Inc./Editorial
Professor, VCU Brandcenter -
Here in Los Angeles, in addition to the previously mentioned Film and TV show market, there is one other bright spot for AVID: the REALITY TV market.
The post process for just about all reality shows is a HUGE group effort. A typical reality show will have anywhere from 20 to 50 people all connected to shared storage (ISIS) using common projects. AVID does this workflow better than any other NLE out there… period. (Yeah, I know that’s an aggressive statement, but it’s true!)
While I don’t question the observations and comments by my fellow cows about the coming demise of AVID, none of you seem to acknowledge the reason for AVID’s dominance in this market. Here’s a clue: They do “sharing” better than anyone else. For me, that’s the primary reason I couldn’t even consider FCP-X on launch. So until you demonstrate a shared workflow that rivals the ease, convenience and common sense of an AVID/ISIS combination, your reports of their demise are premature.
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I work in the exact arena that Mark does…most of the time. Currently cutting a reality show with nine editors, two assistants, 5 story producers…all on an ISIS. Even when I do docs for this company, there will be that many editors on a doc series, and we access all the media and projects. And it is simply the best way to do it…Avid does this better than any other.
FCP 7 was CLOSE…and Mark is one of the pioneers, if not THE pioneer in using that software in reality TV. But with FCP classic, you really had to have editors that paid attention to things, and were on the ball as to what was where, and what they were doing. Unlike Avid where you just open and cut and the only thing you need to do is set your render drive. It just works. But FCP 7 worked too…just with some effort.
And yes, the broadcast/film market is comparitively small in the scope of video production…I hear it’s like 2%. But Avid dominates there…and always has. This has been it’s market, and will remain it’s market. Sure, it lost footing to FCP…but with it gone, Avid is gaining ground. And with more and more reality…and more networks than before…it’s gaining a little more ground. Some companies are side stepping to Adobe and FCX…and that’s fine…if it works for them, it works. Just saying that Avid still has a firm hold in TV/Film land.
The issue is that when it was the biggest boy on the block, used in 90% of films and TV…each system cost $65,000 – $124,000. That’s huge compared to only selling it now as software for $1000…more for the options. And their boxes for under $10,000. That’s where the hit is happening. From ~$80,000 per station, to $1000…or $10,000. Sure, MORE STATIONS as the TV market exploded…but not enough to make up the difference. So, Avid has had to deal with that.
As for going away…no, I don’t see that happening at all. Avid is too big of a fit for what we do. Sure, they used FCX on that one show linked (I want to see more of that, their delivery schedule was INSANE), but that doesn’t work for everyone. And if you want to use FCX for what Mark and I do…you need not only FCX…but a good half dozen other helper apps, and then, again…editors who pay attention and make sure not to do things wrong.
Anyway…hate on Avid all you want. A lot of you seem giddy at the prospect of it going away…and I’m not sure why. If you don’t like the software…if you think it’s clunky…DON’T USE IT. Use what works for you. I don’t use FCX…but I don’t point and laugh at those that do.
Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def -
On the sharing end Mark, I’m curious if you’ve given Adobe Anywhere a hard look (and didn’t have to sign an NDA to do it ;)). The thing that I really love about Avid in a shared environment though (and no other NLE can really replicate this) is how the projects are bins and folders that are accessible via the Finder. It adds such a great layer of flexibility in a multiuser environment (especially for assistant editors).
With regards to Avid’s demise…. when they were delisted their stock price got down to less than $5 I think so they’ve definitely looked worse from that perspective. No company is safe from disappearing though. If Avid disappears tomorrow people will still use it as long as they can before switching to something else (FCP Legend is the perfect example of that). I remember a few years ago when the tsunami in Japan put video tape in short supply and pretty quickly people who swore up and down about the need for tape started figuring how to go tapeless.
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[Robin S. Kurz] “No, I’m merely restating what the guys that maintain the systems (and have been for many years) tell me. Which is in fact not very different from what I’ve heard from almost every Avid user I know over the last few years for that matter. “
I find that hard to believe, since I’ve never heard that same experience from any other users anywhere in the world. I’m excluding support of UnityISIS systems, since that does require some IT expertise. But then so did a full Xsan system. Any so do advanced systems today like OpenDrives. As far as Avid systems, when you bought a full-blown, turnkey workstation, they were less temperamental than systems like Flame.
[Robin S. Kurz] “The whole “hasn’t been ‘certified’ for x, y or z yet””
That’s actually true of every company. But really all it means is that a specific configuration has been tested by QA engineering. Admittedly Avid is more conservative than some others, but a qualified configuration is a known working combination of parts.
[Robin S. Kurz] “I also know that the Avids have been the only edit suites that have ever been down for any extended period of time over the years.”
Really? Down for what reasons? Hardware? Software? Again, not my experience nor anyone else I know. Maybe for comparison, we should talk about how difficult it was for many users of FCP “legacy”/Kona combos to correctly navigate the menu options in order to get the correct video format out to a monitor or tape deck, just a few short years ago. I know FCP editors today who still can’t figure it out.
[Robin S. Kurz] “To the point where they are on separate machines all by themselves by now, because when you have to update OS X to be able to run every other NLE or maybe some utility, suddenly the Media Composer gets all flakey.”
You’re making a mountain out of a mole hill. Yes, you do have to wait on OS updates until Avid has a chance to test and if needed issue a patch. They’ve been burned repeatedly in the past by OS updates and, therefore, won’t do final testing until the release version of the OS is out. Apple in particular has a bad habit of making changes between prerelease versions and release versions that break things, hence the reason for caution. Usually there’s a lag of a few months. That’s prudent regardless of the NLE you are using. But it’s not that different on the other end. For example, to run FCP X 10.2.x, a user MUST be on Yosemite, even though that might not be a good move for other reasons.
[Robin S. Kurz] “Especially since no one actually shoots FILM anymore anyway”
Schools teach filmmaking don’t shoot on film either for the most part. However, there are features written into the MC code that benefit all productions as an outgrowth of their film post heritage. Things like multiple timecodes per clip.
[Robin S. Kurz] “That may well be. In the U.S. But then we’re talking about an even smaller fragment of the industry. And we are talking about Avids survival here, so I don’t see how that qualifies as an argument for Avid or its use”
I’m not questioning any of the marketshare or financial issues. They are real and Avid does have very little appeal to a broader, more general video users. Plus Avid doesn’t have the benefit of deep pockets created by the consumer goods market, like selling iPhones and goofy watches to the masses. Oops – sorry about that watch thing. Not really doing as well as Apple would like, I guess.
In any case, you have to remember that stock price has no direct relationship to the success or failure of a company. Profitability sure does and Avid has been lacking there. OTOH, most of the internet tools we use day in and day out have yet to make a profit. So in the end, it’s all funny money anyway. If any of us were actually qualified to understand the stock market, we wouldn’t be participating in places like the COW at all.
– Oliver
Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com -
[Andrew Kimery] “I remember a few years ago when the tsunami in Japan put video tape in short supply and pretty quickly people who swore up and down about the need for tape started figuring how to go tapeless.
Having just dubbed 14 HDCam tapes for my current post job for Irish, Welsh, Australian and International distributor I can tell you that like AVID, tape still has a life and demand. Even the National Film & Sound Archive want an HDCam tape of the final for archiving. I want tape to die because it is a nuisance compared to files.
Legend and AVID still dominate my world. And from feedback from my clients that isn’t changing soon. More editors who feed through to me are more excited by Resolve 12 than X but still 90% of my clients are using Legend or AVID.
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[Michael Gissing] “Having just dubbed 14 HDCam tapes for my current post job for Irish, Welsh, Australian and International distributor I can tell you that like AVID, tape still has a life and demand. Even the National Film & Sound Archive want an HDCam tape of the final for archiving. I want tape to die because it is a nuisance compared to files.
Legend and AVID still dominate my world. And from feedback from my clients that isn’t changing soon. More editors who feed through to me are more excited by Resolve 12 than X but still 90% of my clients are using Legend or AVID.
“I’m in a similar neck of the woods as Mark and Shane which means Avid’s #1, FCP Legend is a falling #2, PPro is a rising #3 and X is a distant #4. So I get where people are coming from, my point is just that if Avid (or all the videotape makers) closed up shop tomorrow people would figure how to get done what they need to get done w/o Avid and w/o videotape. I don’t think Avid, or any company, is too big, too widely used, etc., to disappear. Sony Walkman, IBM PCs, Nokia, Palm… all market leaders at one point and now, well, not so much.
The customers’ need/desire for a product to survive and the ability of the business owner to make the product survive aren’t really linked.
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