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One year later…
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[Andrew Richards] “I can remember claims to that effect, though not necessarily coming from facility bosses like our esteemed Mr. Raudonis and Mr. Biscardi.”
Walter Biscardi dropped FCP within 6 months of the release. Bunim/Murray also switched within the year.
Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
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nothin’ attached to nothin’
“Deciding the spine is the process of editing” F. Bieberkopf -
[Andrew Richards] “Maybe the distinction is immediate mass exodus. But at the very least, there were plenty of exodus predictions to go around last summer.
“That is the distinction. We’re just quibbling about people predicting “mass exodus from FCP 7 starting immediately.” I’m in the process of leaving–meaning not using X as anything other than a side tool–myself. I still think FCP 7 will be useful in my trade for another year. Maybe more.
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[Walter Soyka] “If you stick with one NLE, you are exposed to all its weaknesses. If you use multiple NLEs, you minimize your exposure to any one NLE’s weaknesses, but assume much greater complexity. It’s a trade-off. It’s not the right call for everyone, but it may be the right call for some.
If I were a freelance creative editor that used to use FCP7 exclusively, you can bet I’d be learning MC, Pr and FCPX.
In your business, I suspect your infrastructure and project management — and their stability — is a competitive advantage. I’d guess that many of your projects are fundamentally similar, so you would be penalized for reinventing the wheel on every project.
In my business, we often have to fit into other people’s pipelines. The projects often have different requirements, so I’m forced to reinvent the wheel on each project to an extent.”
So now that FCP7 is gone, you all of a sudden have to retrofit your pipeline, and buy windows, linux, nvidia an iMac, a sizzle core beast, cs6, mc6, symphony, smac, vegas, edius, pro tools, logic, and the Blackmagic “Cinema Camera”?
Now that FCP7 is gone, you have to reinvent the wheel?
I guess what I don’t get is when someone says, “I’m sticking with Avid for broadcast, and Premiere for web videos”. Avid can’t deliver a web video?
I have mentioned, that if I was a freelancer, I would have to learn to love whoever is feeding me, and that’s fine. If I was cool enough to work @radicalmedia, I’d probably have to get on the FCPX train.
I am not against learning new things, believe me. It’s just that the argument of “throw them all in the tool box” doesn’t make any sense to me, as there’s simply not enough time in the world to learn it all.
Or projects are similar in the fact that we shoot and edit. Every single one is different. Yes, we driver to tv, web, and the occasional blended projection, and sometimes to PAL standards. They are all different.
[Walter Soyka] “Data archive is already a disaster. You need to keep a copy of FCP7 around forever for all those .fcp projects, unless you had the foresight to start exporting XMLs of your projects back in 2004.
I’ve been shrieking like a banshee here about interchange for almost a year, and this is one reason interchange is so incredibly important.
It’s also the reason that primetime broadcast episodic TV requires those old dinosaur EDLs as a part of the deliverable. They don’t care what system you cut something on — they care if they can recreate your cut if they have to. It’s a degree of protection against an uncertain future.”
Yes, archive and dragging legacies is hard enough. Adding fourteen more applications “to the toolbox” isn’t going to solve this. I have a tiger drive that I can still boot from my Lion machine. The MacOS hasn’t let me down in the respect. Yet. I don’t see it letting me down soon. In the future, yes, I will need to keep a working boot drive of FCP around for as long as I possibly can. This next go around, I am going to try and avoid keeping four NLEs around for the same amount of time. It seems a bit contrived or unnecessary.
Soon, EDLs simply won’t be enough.
Eventually, the projects will fade. They have happened for all the old Media100 projects I have on zip/jaz drives.
[Walter Soyka] “DPs use different cameras all the time, exploiting their strengths and minimizing their weaknesses. Why should post be different?”
Even though there’s too many tapeless formats, they are all based on a standard. A windows NLE, a Mac NLE, a Linux NLE can all ready a Panasonic created MXF file. Avid cannot read an FCP project, can’t read a Flame project, can’t read a Premiere project. There’s a big difference.
[Walter Soyka] “If I have a heavy mograph piece in a custom resolution, I’d like to work on it in Pr/AE because anything else would be painful. If I had a mixed format documentary style project, maybe I’d prefer FCPX. If I’m finishing an existing project from FCP7, maybe some combo of FCP7/Resolve/Smoke is appropriate. If I’m doing a reality series, Avid offers a killer workflow from start to finish.”
I just don’t see it this way. Avid has it’s strengths, so does Premiere. While FCPX is the new kid on the block and needs to do some pushups, it also has some strengths. But why do I have to cut web videos on Premiere when I could do the same with Avid, or vice versa?
In your case, if you cut custom resolutions, why can’t you also do a mixed format doc in Premiere at 1080?
Again, I am not discouraging anyone from learning new things, but buy the tool that’s right for you, which doesn’t mean you need to buy the entire tool aisle.
Jeremy
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In this area I see Herb’s point.
I’ll point to this barefeats GPU test
https://barefeats.com/wst10g14.htmlAnd note Rob’s comments
Now that you’ve seen how fast the Radeon HD 7970 (and GeForce GTX 580) performs compared to the Mac OS X compatible GPUs, aren’t you “speed freaks” feeling a bit jealous of the Windows PC users? Are you feeling a little neglected by Apple? Couldn’t they at least release a new GPU kit while we are waiting for the next Mac Pro?I’d note that they did this on a bootcamped MacPro. Even that’s part of the issue since some have a concern that there may not be a Mac computer that the user can swap out the GPU card.
I’d add that the reason I can run FCPX on my MacPro 2008 was because I was able to change the GPU. It is a real concern that if a program is upgraded or new software comes out and needs a new GPU, you want to be able to look at what GPUs are available and purchase/install.
I’m not sure being constructed in choices is inherently a problem but it can be in some circumstances.
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[Jeremy Garchow] “I am not against learning new things, believe me. It’s just that the argument of “throw them all in the tool box” doesn’t make any sense to me, as there’s simply not enough time in the world to learn it all. “
On this as well as everything else you wrote in this thread I am in complete agreement.
Let’s not have this happen too often though, it might ruin my reputation.
Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
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nothin’ attached to nothin’
“Deciding the spine is the process of editing” F. Bieberkopf -
[Shane Ross] “I too think it has come a long way, and if Apple released FCX 10.0.3…the features that it has in 10.0.3, the reaction would have been a lot different. I wouldn’t have thought they didn’t care about the pro market. But now it is too late…”
This sentiment puzzles me. Had they waited to release FCP X in January, 2012 instead of in June, 2011, it would mean they care about professionals? Either way, they did the development and the features are there now. Why are those features any less for the pro market just because they were added in increments over the course of six months? Why is Apple’s development work on those features any less an effort to support the pro market because it shipped them after the initial release? As Mr. Soyka is keen to point out- it is very unlikely the features of 10.0.3 were all developed up from nothing after 10.0.0 shipped.
Best,
Andy -
[Craig Seeman] “In this area I see Herb’s point.”
What’s this forum coming too? First I agreed with a post by Jeremy, now this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3ZOKDmorj0
Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
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nothin’ attached to nothin’
“Deciding the spine is the process of editing” F. Bieberkopf -
[Jeremy Garchow] “Now that FCP7 is gone, you have to reinvent the wheel?”
Now that FCP7 is gone, we are all invited to re-invent.
FCP7 was very flexible, and people forced it into all kinds of workflows where it may not have been the best option. It was a Swiss Army knife, and people used it to slice fruit and fell trees.
Now we have the opportunity to step back, evaluate our workflows, and pick the NLE that works best — not figure out what workaround to employ to shoehorn our favorite NLE into our workflow.
[Jeremy Garchow] “I guess what I don’t get is when someone says, “I’m sticking with Avid for broadcast, and Premiere for web videos”. Avid can’t deliver a web video?”
Agreed, you can do pretty much any kind of work with any one of the tools.
However, they all also have different personalities and different product-specific features that give them benefits over competitors in different workflows.
[Jeremy Garchow] “I am not against learning new things, believe me. It’s just that the argument of “throw them all in the tool box” doesn’t make any sense to me, as there’s simply not enough time in the world to learn it all.”
You’re right. I was overly simplistic in my original premise.
Buying something and then not using it is a waste of money. I’m in business, and I certainly can’t afford to collect packages just to have them. If you can’t drive it, or if you can’t commit to learning it, save your money.
That said, many of us on FCP came from Avid to begin with, and Premiere will feel pretty familiar to an FCP editor.
I still feel a bit slow in Premiere versus FCP, for example, but even with my lack of muscle memory, I can save a lot of time iterating a graphics-heavy piece with AE/Pr dynamic link versus rendering graphics out and replacing edits in FCP.
[Jeremy Garchow] “Even though there’s too many tapeless formats, they are all based on a standard. A windows NLE, a Mac NLE, a Linux NLE can all ready a Panasonic created MXF file. Avid cannot read an FCP project, can’t read a Flame project, can’t read a Premiere project. There’s a big difference.”
The point of my DP example was not post-oriented. I was saying that a director of photography chooses a specific camera or lens for what it will contribute to the project or even the shot at hand. He or she does not force the same camera and lens into every shot with no consideration for its unique strengths and weaknesses.
Interchange is possible among the NLEs.
[Jeremy Garchow] “I am not against learning new things, believe me. It’s just that the argument of “throw them all in the tool box” doesn’t make any sense to me, as there’s simply not enough time in the world to learn it all. “
There are plenty of Hollywood editors who know both MC and FCP inside-out. Beyond that, editors everywhere are now expected to be editors, colorists, audio mixers, graphic designers, motion designers, and visual effects artists.
If you’re an editor, learning a new NLE is a walk in the park compared to even scratching the surface on any of these other disciplines, let alone the specialized applications they require.
[Jeremy Garchow] “Again, I am not discouraging anyone from learning new things, but buy the tool that’s right for you, which doesn’t mean you need to buy the entire tool aisle.”
We’re not talking about that many tools. You say don’t buy the whole tool aisle. I agree. But I do say that learning a couple tools is well within reach of a working editor today, and they are all pretty inexpensive now, and you can pretty much run them all on the same hardware.
Personally, I don’t care about Edius, Lightworks, or Vegas. I think Premiere will work best in general for me in my internal work, but I’ve got Avid and FCP7 (and my own history and experience with both packages) ready to go for pieces that have started elsewhere. I worked at getting familiar with FCPX, and if an FCPX project comes in the door on Monday, I’ll work harder at it.
Evan Schechtman showed an example at NAB in the Autodesk booth of a spot that saw rough cut on FCP7, fine cut on FCPX, and finishing on Autodesk Smoke. The facility model is to use multiple tools, each for their strengths, to manage the quality-speed-cost triangle. Individual editors can do the same thing today for a couple thousand dollars and a couple hundred hours.
Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog – What I’m thinking when my workstation’s thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events -
Andrew Richards I think it is unfair to say Apple isn’t listening. They aren’t talking (much), but they insist they are listening.
If Apple was really listening, people would be upgrading to FCP 8 right now.
Adobe is listening, and Premiere Pro is starting to resemble a mixture of FCP 7 and Avid as a result. It appears that not many people asked Adobe to remove the source viewer and put in a magnetic timeline with no tracks…
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“THAT’S our fail-safe point. Up until here, we still have enough track to stop the locomotive before it plunges into the ravine… But after this windmill it’s the future or bust.” -
[Andrew Richards] ”
This sentiment puzzles me. Had they waited to release FCP X in January, 2012 instead of in June, 2011, it would mean they care about professionals?”I think I see where Shane is coming from. To me, and I may be off base here, if you are going to launch a new product you are going to put your best foot forward towards your core demographic first and I feel like if Apple wanted to target the ‘level’ of professional that needs b’cast monitoring, multicam, etc., those things would’ve been higher on the priority list. They would have been there at launch while import from iMovie and share to CNN iReporter would’ve been added in later updates.
Maybe I’m reading too much into it, but that plus other things that happened signals to me that Apple is targeting a different demo w/FCPX. Will they take higher end users? Of course. Will they add higher end features? Sure. But, if push comes to shove, those things will take a back seat to the wider user base that they are targeting.
-Andrew
2.9 GHz 8-core (4,1), FCP 7.0.3, 10.6.6
Blackmagic Multibridge Eclipse (7.9.5)
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