Oh dear, we will switch to fcpx!

[Charlie Austin]

[Bret Williams] “I suspect there’s some reasoning in there as to why you can’t enter a compound clip (or exit one) with the playhead synced to the position it was in the main sequence.”

What NLE can you do that in? I don’t recall being able to do that with nested clips in FCP 7, maybe MC?

[Bret Williams] “Or why you can’t match frame a clip to the keyword collection it came from.”

A little annoying at times, but it does match back to the master like everything else right? Might be nice if key worded ranges behaved like sub clips I guess…

[Bret Williams] “And the number or true trimming (which is basically “editing”) features that are missing”

Other than the match frame replace and maybe ability to select clips, or multiple edit points/clip edges vertically via the KB… What?

[Bret Williams] “Don’t release the mouse, just drag it around for a few minutes like you’re trying to decide the best place to put it.”

A few minutes? Really? I’ll check it out, but I believe you. Honestly though, why would you do that. Seconds maybe, but minutes?

————————————————————-

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~”It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools.”~
~”The function you just attempted is not yet implemented”~

[Simon Ubsdell]

[Bill Davis] “I freely admit that SOME editors need things that X does not provide. I’ve actually ALWAYS acknowledged that.”

Fair enough – sorry to have misrepresented what you were saying. We don’t disagree.

Simon Ubsdell
tokyo-uk.com

[Brett Sherman]

[Andrew Kimery] “For me, as a freelance editor in LA, learning X wouldn’t benefit me much because X is in very low demand out here (and that’s putting it nicely).”

Certainly I understand why some choose not to use FCP X. I fully realize there are situations where a tracked timeline works better. And as a freelancer you don’t have the choice of what software to use regardless of what may be the best tool for the job. When I hire editors (rarely) I only hire ones who can edit in FCP X to maintain institutional consistency.

On the flip side, I also believe there is still a bias against FCP X that has not much to do with reality. No, not everyone, but it’s definitely there. It’s been a long road to get even minimal begrudging respect for FCP X – even people questioning our claims of working more efficiently. So I will admit to being overly sensitive also.

[David Powell]

Craig,

You can attempt the same thing in X with compound clips but it is much more sloppy. For one, you can’t see the separate clip lengths and i/o marks as they’re nested. Pancake editing involves to an extent grabbing the clip up top and dragging to where you please. Also for me, I enjoy using markers a LOT. The marker system in X is beyond weak. Avid doesn’t have the capability for pancake editing, however you could employ the “nested sequence in the browser technique” as you would with X. The difference is, all the markers you used in the sequence will show up in the browser/viewer and. And when you cut into the sequence/project (with Avid) the clip will be separated. X will retain its nest which will require you to break part every clip you used.

Speaking of markers, All the other Major NLE’s give marker options which could be used along with sub clipping or an alternative workflow to how Alban is doing it. In X, no colored markers, no maker list drop down in the browser, no marker retention in the nest. Now if X allowed 2 simultaneous projects to be opened I suppose you could use the database function on the left (whats that thing called again) to achieve some nice results. For now, browser based editing is really the only way, which most people may not mind. Every clip showing the same length with lack of a viewer can be annoying as I constantly find myself having to expand longer clips to get the proper selection.

[Craig Alan]

Thanks David. I haven’t tried much to “edit” in the browser. And with all the posts about compound clips causing problems I’ve been reluctant to dig too deep. I find it strange to step in and out of compound break apart secondary break apart to access different features. I am also struggling with X’s markers that I like to use as placeholders. For day to day muscle memory, I’ve pretty much forgotten FCP 7, but I’m still kinda married to the workflow of creating sub-clips in the browser – composition in the timeline. I have gotten used to the much more robust metadata based sub clipping in FCP X. I do miss the window layout features of FCP 7. When I created my sub clips I’d switch to a layout that let me set in and out points on a large viewer and browser.

Markers:

and these can be found/searched for/filtered in the index (the thing on the left). I think that is pretty powerful.

Mac Pro, macbook pro, Imacs (i7); Canon 5D Mark III/70D, Panasonic AG-HPX170/AG-HPX250P, Canon HV40, Sony Z7U/VX2000/PD170; FCP 6 certified; FCP X write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.

[Alban Egger]

[David Powell] “In X, no colored markers, no maker list drop down in the browser, no marker retention in the nest. Now if X allowed 2 simultaneous projects to be opened I suppose you could use the database function on the left (whats that thing called again) to achieve some nice results.”

Yes, the marker system is not comparable (yet?). What you mean is the Timeline Index, where you can search the markers, which you set in the Event Browser or Timeline. They are searchable there (like they are in the Event Browser). But they don´t carry from the timeline back to the browser (workaround is maybe using matchframe and then set the marker) and they are not in the timeline index when you hide them in a compound.
Speaking of Compounds: I find the compounds to be very robust now (there were issues until about 1 year ago), but as you correctly point out, we easily lose the reference as to what is actually going on in the compound.

Back to the markers: in X markers are IMO not a good way to tag interviews, simply for the fact, that keywords are much more powerful, because you can with one click identify all soundbites that belong together, instead of having to search through marker-texts. There are situations, where that is helpful especially as a second check, but in general I feel keywords and smart-collections are much better.

[Mark Snow]

Wow, thanks everyone, I need more time to even read all of this here!

I think the reason, so many editors are still kind of angry is that they so got used to FCP7, using it as motion design tool, NLE, image processor, CC and what not, and got such an expert, that it is like the old VW-Bus (Van) you can not let go, because you lived your whole life in this work-horse.

@alban: yes we are going to have the shiny round, ehem… Bin..;)

Let’s see in a year if I still miss the good old Bezier-smoothed Zoom-ins in my films. Our Plan B would be Premiere, but I hope not, for me their interface still looks too tiny-nerdy-windowsy somewhat. Maybe Blackmagic can really do the trick even. Who knows, I guess, we’ll see!

After 2-3 years since the fcpX-shock, credit is due to the developers of X for addressing a lot of stuff, that was killing the vibes. And talking of improving software, it could be worse, i won’t start to complain about passwords being displayed on my mobile in plain sight or not even being able to edit a simple text file from the cloud on my phone…

[Andrew Kimery]

[Brett Sherman] “On the flip side, I also believe there is still a bias against FCP X that has not much to do with reality. No, not everyone, but it’s definitely there. It’s been a long road to get even minimal begrudging respect for FCP X – even people questioning our claims of working more efficiently. So I will admit to being overly sensitive also.”

I think there is going to continue to be bias against X until it’s built up a enough of a track record on big projects that it’s undeniable that X can get the job done as well as, if not better than, more established NLEs. X has only been out for three years and is still in the process of earning its stripes.

That’s just the way it seems to go. NLEs in general didn’t replace linear bays and flatbed editors overnight. Avid spent many years becoming the de facto NLE for large productions. FCP Legend wasn’t taken seriously for big productions in LA until around version 6 (2007) and poor Premiere spent about 20 years in the ‘only good for weddings/corporate videos’ dog house before finally finding some traction with PPro 6 (2012). Sony Vegas has been a front runner on a lot of features (robust audio editing, ‘open’ timelines, HD and 4K support, etc.,) but it never gets mentioned in the same breath as Avid MC or FCP (or even PPro).

When Apple hit the reset button to make X they didn’t just scrap the old FCP, they also scrapped the inroads the old FCP made in the industry. IMO if Apple had released FCP 8 they would be displacing Avid more than ever right now and PPro would still be considered an also ran.

Oh, and the name calling never seems to go away. When I primarily used Premiere (old Premiere, not PPro) I caught flak from FCP users. When I primarily used FCP I caught flak from Avid users. When I primarily used Avid I caught flak from X users. Currently I’m primarily using PPro and I’m getting flak from both Avid users and X users. Some Resolve fanboys are already getting uppity over the possibility that Resolve may become a fully featured editor at some undetermined point in the future so I’d be for the ready for poo-flinging to start coming from that direction too. 😉

[Richard Herd]

[Andrew Kimery] “built up a enough of a track record”

There are no tracks! 😉

I know LA editors using X, but they keep it on the down-low.

Avid’s IT controls are pretty much beautiful, and that’s a big deal. Events, Project, Libraries are close. I would be curious the IT permissions (read/write) on X’s “stuff,” whereas Avids pretty much guarantee picture does cannot get leaked before release.

And really that brings up another question about LA freelancing: to what extent are you trusted with material that waits for release? For example the latest cut from the Bachelorette or American Idol and so on. What controls are used so that nothing gets leaked?

Thanks!

[Richard Herd]

[Simon Ubsdell] “Gang Sync are the two things”

Please discuss Gang Sync and how you use it…maybe it’s a question more for art of the edit forum, and not this one.

Thanks!