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Need help with non-controllable device – dropping frames
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[jhwilson] “why couldn’t I then use the Firewire NTSC to start the recording of the DSR-11 and try it that way?”
Because you need to have FCP controlling a TAPE (and the TC needs to be ON the tape) for the “controllable device” setting to work.
If you try to initiate a RECORD on the deck using FCP, then FCP will NOT be in the capture mode (FCR would be attempting “playing a timeline” out the FW.)The DSR needs to be in the PLAY mode for FCP to initiate a capture (INCOMING files to FCP).
If attempted, once you manually stop the deck and/or try to go into deck Record mode, FCP will detect dropped frames.All of this is moot anyway, because to have the DSR-11 be controlled by FCP FW, the deck must be in the “DV” input mode and the analog inputs to the deck would then be switched off (no switcher input or external audio would go to the deck).
Manually switching the input setting would result in FCP losing contact and dropping frames.What happens if you don’t hit RECORD on the deck, (no tape in the deck at all) but just let the video/audio “loop through” (e-to-e) the deck (A-to-D transcode) to FW and FCP?
I say this because if that works, you might be able to use (here I go again, until you respond to me on this) a CAPTURE CARD (Canopus or otherwise) instead of the deck that is in RECORD mode (which MIGHT be a factor in this).
As you can tell, I have a lot of trouble-shooting experience (decades of it).
As new gear and technologies come along, it takes work to discover what causes certain problems under certain conditions.
So please keep me in the loop so we can try to get this fixed for you one way or another.If anyone else lurking can suggest something we’ve overlooked, please post-in.
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I’m going to try a multitude of tests tonight based upon our discussion.
One interesting thing I’ve tried today at work is with the dsr-20.
when you switch the input to analog, the FW NTSC setting still controls the deck.
But you’re absolutely correct, there is no setting to record in the capture window. I think I will try to take the DSR-20 as well tonight and see if it will do something the DSR-11 won’t. At least it will function with the input on analog.
Mac G5, Dual 2.0, Superdrives, 10.3.3, FCP 4.5, 1.5 GB DDR SDRAM
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Thax is the MAN! Probably one of the best troubleshooters on the board. You are in good hands mate. Let us know how it turned out.
Kevin Monahan
Take My FCP Master’s Seminar!
fcpworld.com -
[Kevin Monahan] “Thax is the MAN! Probably one of the best troubleshooters on the board.”
Uh Oh. Now I have to try to live up to the HYPE 😉
Thank you, Mr. M.
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OK, tests are over and here’s what I find with my situation:
1. Camera hooked straight to mac running FCP5 with no tape in camera. Capture was done on non-controllable device and it dropped frames just like the original post. It runs fine for a while and then drops some frames
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[jhwilson] “I left thinking that FCP5 REALLY likes there to be time code in the stream,”
But, I’m quite sure there IS “TC in the stream” when you have the DECK in “record” and FCP is capturing from the deck’s FW (its just ignored by FCP in Capture Now).
[jhwilson] “although it will capture from a non-controllable device, that it sometimes doesn’t know how to keep up with the video stream.”
This seems the more-likely problem. “Capture Now” has always been one of those FAQ problems here. My recommendation has been in those cases to dub to DV tape and capture the DV tape.
In YOUR case, I’d try the DSR-20 in place of the DSR-11 (doubt it will matter, but TRY it).
Another way to save the “extra hour of dub-in time” would be to record from the deck’s FW to a FireStore (Hard-Disk) unit during the show, and edit from that FireStore with FCP (no dub time). -
I wish we lived close, Thax, no doubt we have a lot in common and would be friends.
I am going to try the DSR-20 right away. I have had it in production and couldn’t up to now, but it’s on my agenda now.
Ironically, I have tried my Firestore in the loop we have been discussing. I can’t get the Firestore to even come on. When coming straight out of the DSR-11, with the DSR-11 in record mode, the Firestore just sits there and waits for timecode that never comes. I, too, thought the Firestore would be my answer. If it is, I just haven’t figured out how it is.
This is what led me to believe there was no time code coming from the DSR-11 record stream when recording from an analog source. I know it is striping a timecode to tape, I’m just not as sure as you are that the DSR-11 is passing the timecode on.
BTW and FYI, I tried to start the Firestore automatically and manually and it made no difference. There was no preference I found, no combination I could press that would start the hard drive to recording while coming from the DSR-11 in manual mode. BUT, you have me thinking. I can try that out with the DSR-20 without even moving it.
I will bring my Firestore to work today and hook it to my DSR-20. I will set the 20 for analog inputs and start recording on the deck. I’ll then see if I can get the Firestore to (1) come on and (2) capture without losing any frames.
I’ll let you know.
Mac G5, Dual 2.0, Pioneer A109, 10.4.2, FCP 5, 2 GB DDR SDRAM
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Strange, I’m now replying to my own posts
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FYI, the next test I will do is to replace the DSR-11 (20) with a TRV900 camera. I will capture to the camera from an analog source and see if the camera passes the timecode to the Firestore. In theory, it should work. If that does work, it would lead me to believe that there is a distinct difference in the DV stream emitted from the DSR and TRV products.
If it doesn’t work, then I’m pretty much still in the same mud hole!
Mac G5, Dual 2.0, Pioneer A109, 10.4.2, FCP 5, 2 GB DDR SDRAM
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I’m still here, monitoring your progress.
Seems to me you’re going at it the right way.
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