Need Advice On a Cheap Setup

[Ty Ford]

Hello Josh and welcome to the Cow Audio Forum,

Your current financial constraints are pretty much guaranteeing you an unpleasant outcome. Unless you’re within two feet of the person you’re interviewing, your audio will disappoint you. And even then, on a noisy street corner, you’re going to hate yourself in the morning (when you get your clips loaded into the editing system and hear what you got.

So, the good news is that you can pretty much get any mic you want because the mic on the camera approach will make even good mics sound bad.

Regards,

Ty Ford

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[David C jones]

Hi Josh-

I have to agree with Ty, you just don’t have a budget to get everything you want. At the very least, you need about twice that [$700]. You also need a good pair of headphones like the Sony MDR-7506 (at $95).

Mics mounted on cameras are fine for picking up general ambient sound, but usually not so good when trying to pick up clear sound from subjects. That’s why you see sound guys booming from overhead.

As far as recommendations that fall within a more realistic budget I would look at Audio Technica shotgun mics like the AT4073 $599. And the Sennheiser G3 wireless system also $599.

Regards,
Dave J

[Josh Levine]

The shotgun mic probably would only be used for indoor environments, interviewing small groups of people. The lav would be for individual interviews outside.

So, saying I up it to about $1100 and destroy my credit – haha – what then? Are the Sennheiser G2’s a decent bet? How about the ME66 for a shotgun (for inside)?

I mean, I understand I’m not going to get Lucasfilm quality. That’s a given. But I’m sure a $400-500 mic must be better than, say, a $50 Radio Shack one, right…? What’s the lesser of evils, then, in mics within my range? (I’ll check out the AT shotgun.)

[Ty Ford]

Josh,

Go with the lav for the interiors. Forget the shotgun. A shotgun mic mounted on a a camera is absolutely the wrong mic and wrong application for shooting interior interviews. Shotguns are much more omni directional at mid and low frequencies. The wall and ceiling bounce will compromise your audio.

Which one?

Countryman EMW or B3
Sony ECM 77b
Sanken COS 11

Regards,

Ty Ford

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[Sam Mallery]

I firmly believe it’s better to have an inexpensive yet decent quality shotgun mounted on the camera, as opposed to just using the internal mic.

I would get a Rode NGT1 shotgun:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/400812-REG/Rode__NTG_1_Condenser_Shotgun_Microphone.html

That kit includes the shotgun mic, the shockmount you need to mount it to the camera, and the XLR cable. That mic requires phantom power to operate, and you have phantom power on your DVX100. For the money, it’s a surprisingly good sounding microphone.

That leaves us with $430 for a wireless lav. Well, if you can come up with an extra $70, you should really go for a Sennheiser G2:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/324242-REG/Sennheiser_EW112PG2_A_Evolution_G2_100_Series.html

The wireless lav kits that are cheaper than this really aren’t worth it. A lot of people who have a limited budget go with the equipment I’ve listed here and are happy with the results. A lot of the advice that gets dispensed on this forum is coming from a good place, but the perspective is squarely from the highest standards of audio production equipment.

You can still get decent audio with your budget, you just need to try a little harder and pay a lot of attention to what you hear in your headphones, even if you can’t afford a pair of $100 Sony MDR7506.

[Ty Ford]

Sam,

Sorry, I’m going to speak against a wireless lav unless there’s a really good reason to go wireless. It’s more money, more complicated and doesn’t sound as good as a good hard wired lav.

Regards,

Ty Ford

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[Sam Mallery]

Based on this information, I usually find that wireless lavs are a good idea:

“…documentary making… video in general… looking for a basic audio setup… The doc will consist of many interviews in different locations: outside in a major city; on public transit; and in controlled, indoor environments. At this time, I can only afford one lavalier mic and one shotgun mic…”

Boompoles, wires, and pistol mounted mics are generally not such a great idea on public transportation, at least for run and gun no-budget documentary film making.

[Craig Alan]

When you say interviews, who is asking the questions? Without a boom pole and operator, you need two mikes, one for the subject and one for the interviewer. For $700 you can’t afford two Sennheiser G2s. Also the mike that comes with it can be disappointing. I’m not being super picky here, the kit for the most part works well but the lav itself is just so so. It requires experience and constant experimentation to get clean sound from it. The other problem is that if you are shooting in many locations, you are bound to face a situation where the cordless kit is picking up interference and will not work on any frequency.

I would on this budget stay with wired mikes. You can get ENG hand held mikes, which will record excellent interview sound. Look in the $150 apiece range. For example: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/76687-REG/Electro_Voice_16501707_RE50_B_Omni_ENG.html#accessories. With canare xlr cables, you are at $400. Then think about two wired countryman lavs. Something like: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/295908-REG/Countryman_B3P4FF05B_B3_Omnidirectional_Lavalier_Microphone.html. You might think that wired is less convenient than wireless but with a one-man crew getting the talent comfortable with the transmitter and adjusting it is a lot trickier than you might think. For the buck, you get much much much better sound quality with wired mikes. No scanning frequencies, no adjusting transmitter levels and receiver levels. No batteries running low. For the hassle of dealing with cords you get pro quality sound. Get yourself some soft cases to protect the mikes in your cam bag, a couple of rolls of gaffer tape, and a must have headphones https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/49510-REG/Sony_MDR_7506_MDR_7506_Headphone.html and you are good to go. Even before I’d buy a cordless kit I’d get a sound devices 302 mixer. Check out the video that BH has on that ENG mike. There are other choices for ENG mikes as well.

If you only need one mike and absolutely require a cordless than go with the G2 kit that comes with the Plug-In Transmitter and get an ENG handheld to go with it and a countryman lav with the G2 adapter. You will be way over your budget and you’ll still need wired mikes and cables as backup.

On an interview heavy documentary, clean, pleasant sound is way more important than any other variable. You can always use ken burns style stills or graphics or b-roll to cover for bad or boring footage, but if you capture sub-par sound you end up with an un-watchable project.

OSX 10.5.7; MAC Book PRO (EARLY 2008); Camcorders: Sony Z7U, Canon HV30, Sony vx2000/PD170, Canon xl2; Pana, Sony, and Canon consumer cams; FCP certified; write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.

[Craig Alan]

I see what you mean. But if you are just capturing the event as it happens, you still need to get your mike close to the source or you just get atmosphere sound. You can use this with a voice over and perhaps you’ll get some clean enough voice clips within the scene. You’ll need to get your cam real close for the attached mike to pick up dialog. I have shot footage in crowded events using a G2 with plug transmitter and an ENG mike. It works but it’s not an “interview” other than some quick off camera questions perhaps. And the G2 will fail in certain environments. Once you start setting up the body transmitter and lav it’s no longer true run and gun.

A lot depends on whether the subject is moving. And the whole style of the shoot. If you really want to capture subjects where they are not “in on” the production, then you need an assistant to get your cordless close to the subjects. You can’t zoom a mike.

If we are talking about recording voices on public transportation, the mike needs to be very very close to the subject’s mouth or the audience will be listening to loud background noise. This is fine for a few seconds in an action pic where the noise contributes to the sense of danger and the subject is shouting over the din. But for documentary interviews???

Good xlr cords are pretty easy to manage. Measure off how much slack you need from floor to cam. Put a piece of gaffers tape at that point. Disconnect cord from cam run your length to subject. Gaffer tape the cord down to avoid tripping hazards. Leave plenty of slack for talent. Reconnect xlr to cam. Use a Velcro tie or more tape to secure cord to cam or tripod to prevent it being tugged and straining connection (particularly if you are plugging into a miniplug).

OSX 10.5.7; MAC Book PRO (EARLY 2008); Camcorders: Sony Z7U, Canon HV30, Sony vx2000/PD170, Canon xl2; Pana, Sony, and Canon consumer cams; FCP certified; write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.

[Sam Mallery]

“Good xlr cords are pretty easy to manage. Measure off how much slack you need from floor to cam. Put a piece of gaffers tape at that point. Disconnect cord from cam run your length to subject. Gaffer tape the cord down to avoid tripping hazards. Leave plenty of slack for talent. Reconnect xlr to cam. Use a Velcro tie or more tape to secure cord to cam or tripod to prevent it being tugged and straining connection (particularly if you are plugging into a miniplug).”

If using a wireless lav isn’t true run and gun, what would you call this? 🙂

I agree that wired lavs are good to have around. But I think that handheld mics make documentaries look like journalism. Stick with the wireless lav and the Rode shotgun. You can get an XLR cable and a pistol grip for the Rode shockmount:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/529346-REG/Pearstone_GRIP_Universal_Microphone_Hand_Grip.html

That way if there is no one else there helping you, you can get the shotgun closer to the subject without getting the microphone in the shot. If someone is helping you, you can get the mic even closer. With a pistol you can also more the mic and point it at the person who is speaking.

Don’t fear interference. There is plenty you can do with a Sennheiser G2 to remedy it. Besides, the vast majority of G2 users I’ve spoken to (I’ve litereally spoken to thousands of them) have never had issues with interference. In fact, most of them open up the box and use the frequency that was set at the factory and never need to even learn how to change it. A more common problem is adjusting the output level of the receiver.

In the great spirit of going over budget, you should really get this:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/267890-REG/Rycote_033042_14cm_Medium_Hole_Softie.html

That’s the softie that fits the Rode NTG-1 shotgun. You’ll need it for all outdoor shots. With the softie, the pistol grip, and a 25 foot XLR cable, you can do a lot.