Need Advice On a Cheap Setup

[Craig Alan]

“But I think that handheld mics make documentaries look like journalism”

It all depends on how you plan to shoot your doc. And how you edit it. If the interviews are used mostly for audio tracks then what you care most about is the sound quality.

The vast majority of times you set up using the G2, it will be fine. But I would have a wired back up. There are locations where there is interference.

Good wireless cost way more than good wired. A good lav cost way more than a good hand held.

I also think the lav that comes with the G2 is not good enough to use as your main mic for a doc. It does not reject clothing noise well. Best to keep its wire looped and off the clothing. It has what I would call a hollow and dull audio quality. One kit alone is $700. And one mic does not make for an interview. So now you are talking about two kits. If using two, you need to set them to different frequencies. No big deal. Nor am I arguing against buying the g2. We have 4 kits. But it would not be my first choice on a $700 budget. I’d suggest these at $200 a piece: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=NavBar&A=getItemDetail&Q=&sku=294555&is=REG&si=rev#anchorToReadReviews

The vast majority of times I run XLRs, I don’t bother with the gaffer tape. I threw that in only to give ideas if setting up an interview with a cooperative subject in a crowded environment. Nor does securing the wire with a piece of gaffers take a lot of time unless you are running gaffer over the full length of cable so people can step over it repeatedly.

Another thing to consider, and I’m not arguing for or against, is if you do go with the wireless kit and you are or are not mounting your camera on a tripod, figure out how you will mount your receiver to your camera. There are lots of accessories that can do this for you but give it some thought. Consider that you do want to be able to see the lcd screen in whatever position it ends up. So, for example, if you mount it horizontally on a hot shoe extender, you need to be tall enough to look down on it. Also the antennae should be aligned to each other: if your transmitter is vertical so should be your receiver.

Here’s a tutorial on how to set the basic controls for the G2 https://dvcreators.net/products/sennheiser_wireless_movieframe.htm.

Hint: pushing the on/off button quickly will take you out of the menu system.
Holding it for about 2 seconds will turn it on and off.

Tip: bring a large supply of batteries and have a way of storing them so the contacts don’t meet and they stay cool.

OSX 10.5.7; MAC Book PRO (EARLY 2008); Camcorders: Sony Z7U, Canon HV30, Sony vx2000/PD170, Canon xl2; Pana, Sony, and Canon consumer cams; FCP certified; write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.

[Josh Levine]

Thanks all of you for the responses.

The documentary is, I guess, what you guys call “run-n-gun.” It’s about graffiti in San Francisco in the 1980’s, which was our golden era for graffiti. Since there’s little actual footage (for obvious reasons), the doc will depend heavily on interviews and photo stills. I plan to show it locally (maybe at film festivals, if I pull this off) and release it on DVD.

Most the interviews will be one-on-ones outdoors in the City. However, most won’t be in as challenging a location as the back of a bus. Some will be indoors, and there will be several group interviews, which I’ll keep indoors to make it easier on myself. The interviews won’t be Mike Wallace style, with a back and forth. Interviews will be used to get video clips and/or sound bytes, so there interviewer won’t be featured in the film.

I have audio experience as a mixer, and my stepfather is an ex-pro mixer, so I’m decently experienced with that end, but I have little to no experience in actually capturing audio.

I bought the G2, and I think I may buy a wired lav as a backup, but I still need a mic for indoor group recording. I’ve given in to the idea of using a boom mic, so recommendations for the best I can get in the $300-400 range would be great. (I have good studio monitor headphones and extra XLR cables already.)

[Ty Ford]

Josh,

There is no mic that can accomplish good indoor group recording. Please elaborate on what you actually envision doing.

Regards,

Ty Ford

Want better production audio?: Ty Ford’s Audio Bootcamp Field Guide
Watch Ty play guitar

[Sam Mallery]

For an indoor group, you should have a boompole, someone needs to operate the boompole and wear the headphones that are plugged into the headphone output of the camera to hear what they are doing at all times. The boom operator must do their best to follow the sound of the person who is speaking by maneuvering the pole around and pointing the mic at them.

That said, most indoor shoots will sound better if you don’t use a shotgun style microphone on the pole, but rather you use a small diaphragm condenser with a hyper-cardioid pick-up pattern. Shotguns will pick up too many reflections of sound bouncing off of the walls and floor, where the small diaphragm hyper-cardioid will sound more like natural conversation, rather than sounding like an echoy room.

I use the Audio Technica AT4053 for the task of indoor booming. It’s an amazing sounding indoor booming mic that you should be able to find used for $300 or less. You will also need a boompole, and these can be had in the low end for around $150.

When you boom a group like this, you should put the wireless lav on the most important person in the room.

[Josh Levine]

Ty, I’m doing a movie on graffiti writers in my city. Most of the interviews will be one-on-ones, but I want to get group interviews as well to capture their interactions. For example, I may have 4-5 people in a room in seated in chairs or on a couch, I’ll give them a subject, and let them talk. I can do a cardioid mic on a boom, but in a situation like that, I’d anticipate the conversation bouncing around a lot. It could be hard to follow the conversation using a boom, especially with an amateur operator. I understand my conditions aren’t ideal, and I also realize mt budget is even less ideal. All I’m looking for is some advice on how to accomplish what I want as best as I can within my financial means. I’ve thought about wired lavs as well, but I can’t afford 4 wired lavs right now. So… I’m stuck and hoping you pros can offer some advice!

[Ty Ford]

Find a sound guy with a Shure FP410 automixer. Four mic inputs, four lavs, one on each person speaking.

Mono out to one or both tracks of your camera.

Regards,

Ty Ford

Want better production audio?: Ty Ford’s Audio Bootcamp Field Guide
Watch Ty play guitar

[Craig Alan]

Great idea for a doc!

You’ve ordered the G2 so try out the lav. You’ll either think, “Sounds fine,” or you’ll get out your credit card and order the countryman or ask Ty which lav to get. Either way, I’d have a wired back up. I believe you can order a countryman that will work either way with the right connections.

The group scene can either be done the way Ty suggests or you’ll need a sound person to ride the levels with a mixer that can handle 4-6 inputs. You can probably rent the Shure FP410 automixer as well. But I wouldn’t rent just for the day of the shoot. I’d practice with it first.

Again, it sounds like you plan to edit sound bites from the group scenes over stills of the real subject which is the art. If that is so, I’d consider getting a good hand-held ENG mike and a plug transmitter for your G2. The same mic can then be used wired if the G2 is having problems. Either way the group is sharing memories with each other and it becomes a fun thing to pass the mike around to whoever wants to talk. This is not at all the way a news interview would look.

A student of mine shot a reunion of grads, now mostly seniors, exactly this way and it came out fine. The angle: we are taking turns documenting our memories for posterity.

You can zoom in close enough so the mike is out of the shot if you don’t like the look.

You ever notice on talk shows with a full crew, in a studio setting, and lots of experience, the boom pole/operator (when audience members talk) will often drift into the shot? As an alternative, the host will hand the audience member the mike or point the mike at their mouth. There is no affordable way to mike all those people. Hewell Howser uses the mike-in-shot style and it clearly feels like a documentary rather than news show.

I’d run a second mike to an MC who can introduce the speakers and direct the event. You might never use their voice in the final mix but at least the event will run smoothly and you’ll capture their interaction and names.

OSX 10.5.7; MAC Book PRO (EARLY 2008); Camcorders: Sony Z7U, Canon HV30, Sony vx2000/PD170, Canon xl2; Pana, Sony, and Canon consumer cams; FCP certified; write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.

[Ty Ford]

Excellent Craig,

A plausible “people” solution instead one that centers on technology.

Thanks for sharing your thoughtful ideas on the Cow.

Regards,

Ty Ford

Want better production audio?: Ty Ford’s Audio Bootcamp Field Guide
Watch Ty play guitar

[Josh Levine]

Hmmm, yeah, I could go for a handheld as well. If I were to keep my groups at 2 people (for now), what would be a few wired lavs I could do? Can you guys recommend a few in different price classes?