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Murch and NLEs from IBC
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[Oliver Peters] ”
You’re getting dangerously close to guitar discussions again 😉
“You mean to say there is some logic in Bill’s response? Thanks for pointing it out Oliver, I was certainly fooled.
David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist & Workflow Consultant
David Weiss Productions
Los AngelesDavid is a Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Apple Final Cut Pro forum.
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[Bill Davis] “I found the argument silly”
I too find it silly that you are arguing that Filemaker and using cards on a board are inefficient, antiquated and/or outdated options yet here we are, complete with straw man arguments like the one below.
[Bill Davis] “Be kinda tough to get a 4 X 8 piece of foamcore storyboard in there!”
[Bill Davis] “I just don’t mistake that because it serves my needs in one setting – that’s the only viable way to approach Every edit every time.
“Let me know the next time you do a comparative analysis of various NLEs. 😉
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[Oliver Peters] “True, but there was no direct support.”
How do you know that Oliver?
Did he tell you that personally?
That’s not what he is saying on stage
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[Tony West] “How do you know that Oliver?
Did he tell you that personally?
That’s not what he is saying on stage
“What do understand as direct support? I’m going by what Mike, Jan and Glenn told me personally in interviews. By direct support, I mean direct assistance by Apple engineers either on-site or specific configuration/optimization assistance. To my knowledge that hasn’t happened since the first days of the Coens originally using FCP “classic”. Maybe you are thinking of more subtle interaction. If so, then probably yes. What is he saying specifically from the stage? And who?
– Oliver
Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com -
[Andrew Kimery] “”Be kinda tough to get a 4 X 8 piece of foamcore storyboard in there!””
ALERT: This is a quip. Not an argument.
[Andrew Kimery] “Let me know the next time you do a comparative analysis of various NLEs. 😉
“Why would I? I have an NLE that fulfills ALL my needs – was paid for 4 years ago – and has far more capabilities now than it did when I paid for it… Once. Not monthly. Forever.
BTW, in the spirit of raprochment – I’m flying in for the FCP X thing at Able Cinema in LA on Saturday specifically to see my LA friends – will you be there? First round’s on me afterwards if you are.
Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com – video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.
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I think feature film editors working long days for over a year give a very realistic long term case study on how to best improve any NLE. The daily issues that pop up, no matter how minor, are compounded by the sheer fact that they must be addressed so many times in one day that you want to lose your shit.
3 years ago I was hired to work on Gone Girl. I trained and supervised editor Kirk Baxter and AE Tyler Nelson as they transitioned into Premiere Pro from FCP7. As a feature film editor myself, I’ve cut features on AVID, FCP7 and Premiere Pro and the process went very smoothly as the problems and limitations in FCP7 were the same I had gone through so many times. I had 3 weeks to share my experiences with Fincher’s team but the mechanical editing transition was accomplished in the first 3 days. Their biggest questions were: how do I mark in, out, insert, overwrite, delete, ripple delete, trim. Those were the only core essentials they needed to physically edit and plow forward.
After over a year of editing, The latest version of Premiere Pro CC carries probably 70+ new features that were requested directly by Fincher’s post team. They were not hypothetical features that a company thinks editors will want but rather critical and essential needs that must be addressed and refined to optimize a workflow. Anyone using PP has the demanding requests of those editors and the responsive reactions by Adobe to thank.
The tools are all so similar today that any platform will allow for functional editorial. The biggest difference in my view is making the changes that editors actually require and ask for. The smallest changes can bolster efficiency and productivity allowing more time for the creative process to flourish.
I feel Adobe is very selective to the projects they jump on board so they can hone in to fill the gaps to their existing functionality. Over the last 6 months I’ve worked on Deadpool in the same capacity. The 6 person edit team led by Julian Clarke (District 9, Oblivion) were all AVID based editors and never worked on Premiere Pro. I trained them all and optimized their workflow so that the transition was as painless as possible. Once I customized Julian’s keyboard shortcuts and workspaces, he was editing naturally and smoothly in 3 days much like Baxter. I translated their AVID workflow into something that functioned the same inside another NLE but the editing mechanics remained the same.
I wasn’t teaching editing. I was sharing my knowledge of what works for me and how to translate AVID to PP. I learned as much as I taught because I was asked how to reverse engineer their previous workflows and make it work in PP. I’m sure that the next versions of PP will incorporate their requests for features needed at the highest level so that technology is made invisible and the creative can be the main focus.
Sorry for rambling! Just wanted to chime in with my first hand thoughts and experiences. Bottom line…I think it’s best when editors can give direct feedback and see it implemented in a reasonable time frame. Like during the project you are working on!
Vashi Nedomansky
Film Editor
vashivisuals.com
@vashikoo -
Nice post Vashi! And don’t be even slightly concerned you were rambling, your real life accounts are welcome here where conjecture typically rules the day.
David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist & Workflow Consultant
David Weiss Productions
Los AngelesDavid is a Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Apple Final Cut Pro forum.
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[Walter Soyka] “The new, bottom-up model suggests that the Murch/Coen/Fincher NASCAR drivers of the world are benefiting from new family car designs.
I don’t think innovation only goes one way anymore.”
I could be wrong, but I think that the race-car proving ground model is largely gone. Now, racing is mostly marketing to a passionate, attentive audience with money to spend. I’m more of a funny car guy, but racing is fine by me.
So I’m thinking about virtually every improvement in cars in the last few years that means anything to me or my loved ones…or to the many many people I hate LOL…and I’m coming up with things like backup cameras and Bluetooth.
Do NASCAR drivers use Bluetooth? If so, they surely don’t need sat nav. “Left turn approaching. Left turn approaching. Left turn approaching.”
They don’t need automatic parallel parking either. Frankly, I don’t NEED my car to park itself for me, but have you done it? It’s like a mini-Disneyland. I use it even when I don’t have to because it makes me giddy.
But it’s also cool tech, based on simple math. The car knows where the curb is, knows what its own turning radius is, knows how to operate the accelerator and brakes — once you know the very few numbers to plug into the very few formulas, even a chimp could do the calculations. This is what smart cars SHOULD be doing for us: simple math and low-level adjustments.
Parallel parking is almost a distraction from the lifesaving innovation that comes from applying this principle of “my car has eyes and hands and feet and can do math.” Cars stopping themselves when they’re backing up if they sense an object in the way, bringing themselves back into lanes, etc.
Anyway, you get the gist. The most innovative work that car companies are doing is no longer in the production vehicles and race cars. It’s going straight into driveways.
(BTW, have any of y’all seen the Tesla autopilot? Holy cow. Outta the way, Google. Timmy like!)
If we’re really going to take yet another car analogy a little further, let’s do it. Maybe we can say that X is the example of innovation that can only occur once you start ignoring the needs of the high-performance driver.
Not that it’s an either-or in real life as applied to NLEs, but for Apple, I think it still comes back around to the idea of low-hanging fruit.
Apple will gladly take every customer they can get, provided that that customer doesn’t want anything out of Apple beyond what the product and AppleCare can provide.
That is, when Apple ignores pros who could benefit from the kind of direct help that Apple USED to provide, and that dozens of companies represented in Creative COW still DO provide every single day, in every segment of our business…
…I don’t think Apple ignores video and film pros more than it ignores anyone else. I think they ignore us all equally. We’re ALL low hanging fruit. Apple does what it does, and is happy to harvest any of us that they can, as long as they don’t have to change their direction to do it.
At a certain point, I think we have to embrace that we don’t love their stuff in spite of that. We love their stuff BECAUSE they ignore customers, since that’s how the stuff winds up so awesome.
The idea that it would be even better if they DID cater to us is strictly academic. In order for us to test the hypothesis, Apple would have to start catering to us. LOL
Of course, we’re all about the academic arguments and untestable hypotheses.
And cars and guitars. LOL
At least according to Apple, and I’m willing to take their word for it.
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[Oliver Peters] “What do understand as direct support? “
What support means to me is “help” Here is the dictionary definition 2. give assistance to,
If I need help and ask Apple for it and they respond to solve my problem.
Michael Cioni is describing the letter he sent to Apple.
Did you ask Cioni why he sent that letter personally and what he expected back from it?
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[Bill Davis] “ALERT: This is a quip. Not an argument.”
I’ll meet you half way and say it’s an argue-quip. quip-grument?
[Bill Davis] “BTW, in the spirit of raprochment – I’m flying in for the FCP X thing at Able Cinema in LA on Saturday specifically to see my LA friends – will you be there? First round’s on me afterwards if you are.”
Unfortunately it’s a working weekend for me otherwise I would be there.
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