Murch and NLEs from IBC

[David Lawrence]

[Shawn Miller] “As David Lawrence already pointed out, Premiere Pro will also edit down to the sample level.”

I’ll add that with VST/AU plugins, flexible bussing, clip and track level automation, the ability to make tracks as big as and as many you want, Premiere Pro is actually a very robust DAW for 80-90% of what I need everyday. Is it a substitute for ProTools or a full-fledged DAW? Of course not. But anyone saying a well designed NLE can’t also share the functionality of a DAW doesn’t know what they don’t know.

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[David Roth weiss]

[Robin S. Kurz] “Sure. We’ll also just ignore that comparing an NLE with a DAW is nonsense to begin with. Or that there’s always Logic that will go down to the sample as well. But I wouldn’t want to rain on your crusade, so never mind… :D”

So, Master Robin, sorry to rain on your parade, but how does it strike you that Mr. Lawrence has added that Premiere also supports audio editing at the same 1/48000 sub-pixel sample rate? What, no retraction? Cat got your tongue?

I can just see you now, griping all alone in your little cave:

RobIn Kurz as Golum

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist & Workflow Consultant
David Weiss Productions
Los Angeles

David is a Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Apple Final Cut Pro forum.

[Shawn Miller]

[David Lawrence] “[Shawn Miller] “As David Lawrence already pointed out, Premiere Pro will also edit down to the sample level.”

I’ll add that with VST/AU plugins, flexible bussing, clip and track level automation, the ability to make tracks as big as and as many you want, Premiere Pro is actually a very robust DAW for 80-90% of what I need everyday. Is it a substitute for ProTools or a full-fledged DAW? Of course not. But anyone saying a well designed NLE can’t also share the functionality of a DAW doesn’t know what they don’t know.”

Very true, that’s one of the reasons I hope that Vegas comes to the Mac someday. I think a lot of people would like it, especially those who are fond of building up complex audio mixes for video.

Shawn

[David Roth weiss]

[David Lawrence] “I’ll add that with VST/AU plugins, flexible bussing, clip and track level automation, the ability to make tracks as big as and as many you want, Premiere Pro is actually a very robust DAW for 80-90% of what I need everyday. Is it a substitute for ProTools or a full-fledged DAW? Of course not. But anyone saying a well designed NLE can’t also share the functionality of a DAW doesn’t know what they don’t know.”

Well, I guess we can take the off the kid gloves now — it’s no wonder Walter Murch appreciates Premiere.

The stand-alone audio capabilities of Premiere are in fact well beyond what I’d been told, and I think it’s fair to say they are now certainly well beyond those of both FCP X and Avid.

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist & Workflow Consultant
David Weiss Productions
Los Angeles

David is a Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Apple Final Cut Pro forum.

[Michael Gissing]

[Robin Kurz] “[Michael Gissing] “Why not have a mode where clips are displayed based on roles,”

Erm… there is. There are in fact a couple of ways of doing that.”

Nice move Robin, taking just the first part of the sentence out of context. Here’s the complete sentence… “Why not have a mode where clips are displayed based on roles, in other words rearranged on screen like tracks?”

So does X have that specific ability? Yes? No?

[Michael Gissing]

[Shawn Miller] “I haven’t used iZotope’s repair tools, so I can’t really compare them. I wouldn’t be at all surprised if the RX 5 Audio Editor was more sophisticated though, those guys just make magic. I’ve always preferred their compression and EQ tools.”

iZotope denoise, declipper etc are brilliant. I use them as VST plugins in Fairlight. I am about to upgrade to RX5 so I can’t comment on their Editor yet. RX4 standalone was not really an editing tool so I am looking forward to RX5.

[Michael Gissing]

[David Lawrence] “I’ll add that with VST/AU plugins, flexible bussing, clip and track level automation, the ability to make tracks as big as and as many you want, Premiere Pro is actually a very robust DAW for 80-90% of what I need everyday. Is it a substitute for ProTools or a full-fledged DAW? Of course not. But anyone saying a well designed NLE can’t also share the functionality of a DAW doesn’t know what they don’t know.”

And don’t forget Resolve 12 is getting there too with similar audio capability.

[Jeff Markgraf]

Hi David.

Got swamped with work and couldn’t catch up with this thread until now.

Regarding exploding heads – I guess my poor little head is just too sensitive. All that grey matter splattered all over the walls… You should have seen the mess every time Trey Goudy and his merry band of a-holes opened their mouths to speak at that absurd and shameful house committee hearing a couple of days ago. Maybe I should get some netting to keep my poor head together.

As far as this discussion goes…well, I think it’s time to give up the ghost. Except for some info from Shawn about the track patching & bussing capabilities of PPro’s track mixer, no one has really addressed my actual questions. There have been a fair number of condescending and uninformative responses, along with a truly amazing variety of deflection. But very little real information. And not even halfhearted attempts to justify some of the more ridiculous statements of “fact” regarding audio mixing and the question of traditional track structure.

I get it. Positions have been staked out. Agendas must be furthered. Maybe Aindreas can visit and drop some more amusing word bombs for our entertainment. I had simply hoped for some real discussion.

Oh well. Back to doing real work. And maybe the Cubbies will take it all the way next year. 😉

[David Lawrence]

[Jeff Markgraf] “I get it. Positions have been staked out. Agendas must be furthered. Maybe Aindreas can visit and drop some more amusing word bombs for our entertainment. I had simply hoped for some real discussion. “

Hi Jeff,

I’ve been meaning to post a response but have been pretty swamped myself lately. 😉 As I pointed out above, we actually a very long and thoughtful discussion about this topic in 2011. Please check it out:

NLEs, DAWs, Tracks and Audio-centric Workflows — Continuing the Conversation…
https://forums.creativecow.net/readpost/335/16886

I’ll also try to make some time to write some more in response to your question.

_______________________
David Lawrence
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facebook.com/dlawrence
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