Multiple formats in same timeline for 29.97DF Master

[Shane Ross]

[Tony Silanskas] “The final spots will be 29.97DF, both SD DigiBeta and DVCPro HD. The footage I have currently is DVCPro50 29.97, DVCPro HD 23.98, DVCPro HD 29.97, and HD 1080i 29.97 (Animation Codec and Blackmagic Codec). From what I have been reading, my best bet is to create a DVCPro HD 720P 59.94 “

So you need a DVCPRO HD master and a Digibeta master? OK, then best to work in a DVCPRO HD timeline and downconvert to SD when you output, or dub the DVCPRO HD master. Now you say DVCPRO HD 29.97…but you do not say what format. I assume 1080i as that runs at 29.97, where 720p runs at 59.94. But then you also say DVCPRO HD 23.98. Again, what format? 720p 23.98? Or 1080p 23.98 (after removing pulldown?

Need to know what formats you are mixing by pixel size. SD 720×480, got that. But then HD…what? 720p 23.98? 1080i 29.97? then footage in the ANIMATION codec? Convert that now. Animation is NOT an editing format, and requires very fast drives to play back. Convert to DVCPRO HD.

But seriously, figure out what you are delivering…your delivery master.DVCPRO HD 720p 59.94? DVCPRO HD 1080i 29.97? Figure that out, and then make things work to fit that delivery. 23.98 will have to be converted with Compressor to 29.97. FCP does a bad job of adding pulldown.

Shane

GETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD…don’t miss it.
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[Tony Silanskas]

Sorry for the confusion as I’m trying to get a grasp on this myself. Hopefully I can answer your questions.

I forgot to mention that all I was told about for deliverables was what I put; DVCPro HD 29.97 and DigiBeta 29.97. I’m waiting to hear back about the HD final specs again since I said they should be 59.94 since they want to finish in 720P and not 1080i. I am working off the assumption that the final format for HD is DVCPro HD 720P/59.94 since I haven’t been able to get a clear answer. I know it’s an issue not knowing the final format exactly but it’s the situation I am in and am trying to get this done by their deadline.

I do not have any DVCPro HD 1080P/23.98 footage. It is DVCPro HD 720P/23.98.

I just checked again and found out I have one more format that will be added, Beta SP 720×486 to add to my other SD footage of 720×480.

I will be converting the animation footage but haven’t yet as I wanted to get the final timeline specs correct first. The footage is 1080i/29.97. Do I convert to DVCPro HD 720P/59.94 or 1080i/29.97?

For the DVCPro HD 720P/23.98 footage: Are you saying I can’t just drop this footage in the DVCPro HD 720P/59.94 since the pulldown will be rough?

With this extra info would you say my timeline should be DVCPro HD 720P/59.94? And when I make the SD Master I can just spit it out the KONA to the deck to downcovert it like usual?

Also, I looked up some old spots that were done and the sequences say DVCPro HD 720P60/29.97. I’ve never used 29.97 with 720P before. Is this an issue or just wrong? This would help in making it easy to deliver an OMF for audio post by keeping it 29.97.

Thanks so much for helping me!

tony

[Shane Ross]

[Tony Silanskas] “I am working off the assumption that the final format for HD is DVCPro HD 720P/59.94 s”

Good, as that is the only format that you can deliver on tape at 720p. You cannot deliver 720p 29.97, nor 720p23.98 on tape. 720p 59.94 only. OK, moving on.

[Tony Silanskas] “Beta SP 720×486 to add to my other SD footage of 720×480. “

Have a capture card? one that can upconvert SD to HD? Then use that to capture ALL of your SD footage as 720p 59.94. This will make life MUCH easier. one format to deal with. And hardware upconvert all the better. Kona LHi, Kona 3 and Matrox MXO2 do this.

[Tony Silanskas] “For the DVCPro HD 720P/23.98 footage: Are you saying I can’t just drop this footage in the DVCPro HD 720P/59.94 since the pulldown will be rough? “

That’s what I’m saying. Gotta convert with Compressor to the format needed. It will add the proper pulldown.

[Tony Silanskas] “would you say my timeline should be DVCPro HD 720P/59.94?”

Yes, to match your deliverable. Well, is the majority of footage that? Or another format? what do you have the MOST of? FCP can add proper timing on output, so that might be the road to take…what do you have the most of? HD…not SD.

[Tony Silanskas] “And when I make the SD Master I can just spit it out the KONA to the deck to downcovert it like usual? “

yup.

[Tony Silanskas] “I looked up some old spots that were done and the sequences say DVCPro HD 720P60/29.97. I’ve never used 29.97 with 720P before. Is this an issue or just wrong?”

No such format. 720p 59.94. OH..I wonder if they are talking about the timecode readout on the deck. That shows 29.97 code when you play it. But it really is 59.94…60 actual frames per second. But the code shows up to 29 then 00…each frame shows up as a “field” on that deck.

[Tony Silanskas] “This would help in making it easy to deliver an OMF for audio post by keeping it 29.97. “

Audio post should be able to deal with a 59.94 OMF. But what do I know? I don’t deliver 720p masters. But, 29.97 goes into 59.94 rather easily, so 29.97 audio might not be an issue. But again, I have zero experience with this.

Shane

GETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD…don’t miss it.
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[Tony Silanskas]

Wow! Thanks for this info as I think I have a grasp on this project now.

Majority of the footage is DVCPro HD 720P/23.98 shot on P2 so I’ll throw those in compressor and change them to DVCPro HD 720P/59.94. I think my biggest issue was either staying in 23.98 or moving to 59.94 to make a clean/easy 29.97 SD version with all the different formats I have.

What did you mean by this: “FCP can add proper timing on output, so that might be the road to take.”

Just out of curiosity, do you usually convert your 23.98 footage to whatever you are delivering in (mainly 59.94)? Seems like most people are doing this if they are delivering in multiple formats instead of editing in a 23.98 timebase. If so, are there any advantages, besides storage space, to edit in 23.98 if it’s ending up on TV?

tony

[Shane Ross]

Dammit! I typed out a very long well thought out answer, and the internets lost it! Crap.

23.98 is the majority of your footage? Then edit 23.98 and convert everything else to match that. outputting 23.98 to 59.94 is easy, the card does it all. I haven’t delivered a 59.94 720p master, but I have done 1080i 29.97 masters and they look fine.

720 23.98 is used to save on space, yes…that is a BIG concern. But we also like the film look, so that is a double plus for us.

Shane

GETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD…don’t miss it.
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def

[Tony Silanskas]

Sorry about that. On long replies, I copy my message to the clipboard every few minutes as I’ve had that happen to me way too many times. Thanks again for helping me walk through this! Always good to bounce problems off someone else. =) I’ll be sure to let you know if any other issues come up.

tony