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More Bricklayers and Sculptors from Oliver and Simon
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[Jeremy Garchow] “And wouldn’t that simply be a favorite that doesn’t have a “used” tag?”
Exactly. That or simply tagged somehow else. That was pretty much my previous point as well, yes.
As I do my first review of all the footage (obviously something I have to do no matter what, with or without director or producer) I simply Favorite or have the first top five relevant keywords (automatically) mapped to ctrl-1 thru 5. One of many examples: I recently edited a promo for a pet shop of sorts and immediately tagged Cat, Dog, or BOTH for the same clip, names of people etc. Rejecting (e.g. slates, flubs etc.) removes everything that most definitely won’t make it to the timeline, never to be seen again, unless I want to.
All this happens in multiples of realtime while skimming through the media. Skim click, skim click, skim click… After that I could, if I wanted, have a stringout of any and everything of any interest to me in just two clicks. Be it my favorites, my cats, my dogs… yadda yadda. OR I simply have a perfect overview of everything in my event in filmstrip view for me, a director, a producer, my mom to say “ooh, THAT shot”. Always ONLY seeing what is of any overall relevance to me as per the first run through. Ergo: the least amount of clutter possible.
And yes, I’m 110% sure that that is exponentially more efficient than shuffling through 5 timelines. Especially as the edit progresses!
With interviews I skim through, select the parts I want, favorite them and then, in the order I select those favorites on a single clip, that’s the order they land in the timeline with a simple click of the E-key for a perfect frankenbite. Try that from one timeline to the next. ????
– RK
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[Tony West] “I would never pay you to sit there and watch 45 hours of interviews. I wouldn’t pay you to watch b-roll footage that I shot myself. How would you possibly know more about footage that I shot myself. You would be told what’s going to be used, simple as that”
Well that may well be so. I would certainly also take notes, add markers, and possibly have transcripts. I personally would put each person in a sequence for each person and then mix and match by topic. Typically, an hour-long raw interview can be easily trimmed down to 10 min. or less before you really start cutting bone.
I work with plenty of people who shoot their own stuff and have an idea of what they shot that’s important. However, most don’t know the footage nearly as well as they think without going through it again themselves. Director/DPs who edit their own projects often lack the objectivity a editor brings. Not always true, but often so.
[Tony West] “I just don’t believe you are working with that many producer/directors who are that lazy or willing to waste that kind of money to have you log all of their footage for their films. “
Believe it or not, if you like. It’s not a question of lazy or wasteful. These aren’t passion projects. The producers/directors involved are doing other things to generate more revenue. This is a team effort and editors are integral to the team. So it’s unproductive to also have the producer/director review and log their own content. In larger productions, there would be assistant editors, but I rarely have that luxury.
– Oliver
Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com -
[Tony West] “I just don’t believe you are working with that many producer/directors who are that lazy or willing to waste that kind of money to have you log all of their footage for their films”
I don’t know many producer/directors who log any of their footage themselves. If you do, hats off to you but you are not the norm.
One of the many reasons to hire an editor is to get an objective opinion on the material that’s been gathered. Oftentimes, the producer or director is too close to the material to be able to assess it objectively.
[Tony West] “The only way you would know, is if you sat there “on the clock” and watched all of their interviews. “
that’s what transcripts are for. In transcript form, it’s possible to go through interviews very efficiently and much faster than real time.
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[Oliver Peters] “However, most don’t know the footage nearly as well as they think without going through it again themselves.”
That’s why they should be making their favorites before it even gets to you.
[Oliver Peters] “Director/DPs who edit their own projects often lack the objectivity a editor brings. “
Yeah, sometimes that’s true.
[Oliver Peters] “So it’s unproductive to also have the producer/director review and log their own content. “
Wow, it’s unproductive to review the content of a film you are directing. It sounds like I need to come to that area and teach a seminar on how to produce a film and save time and money with X and prep.
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[greg janza] “I don’t know many producer/directors who log any of their footage themselves. If you do, hats off to you but you are not the norm.”
That’s the whole point many of us are making. X makes this process so simple. You watch your footage, you hit “I” and “O” and then “F” type in notes if you like. Then go to the editor ready.
[greg janza] “that’s what transcripts are for. In transcript form, it’s possible to go through interviews very efficiently and much faster than real time.”
1. I don’t see how that’s faster 2. You can’t tell by reading if the audio is good or bad on the take. 3. I wouldn’t pay for transcripts on a small doc (because X makes it so easy and fast) 4. I wouldn’t pay you to sit there and read them.
I’m speaking here this weekend https://www.stlwritersguild.org/gatewaycon.html
It will give me a chance to speak with up and coming filmmakers and I will ask for a show of hands on different topics. I will report back.
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For those who feel more comfortable with X’s methods for extensive browser metadata, selections, and annotation, T Payton posted a very good 2-part blog at FrameIO:
https://blog.frame.io/2016/10/18/make-fcp-x-log-better-1/
https://blog.frame.io/2016/11/02/make-fcp-x-log-better-2/
– Oliver
Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com -
[Tony West] “It sounds like I need to come to that area and teach a seminar on how to produce a film and save time and money with X and prep”
You better start in Hollywood or NYC then, because that’s pretty much the process for most docs and reality TV.
PS: I wonder why directors like Errol Morris and Alex Gibney hire editors and keep them on payroll for such a long time. They could simply log the footage and have the editor come in and cut for a couple of weeks and call it done.
– Oliver
Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com -
[Simon Ubsdell] “I think it could be said that what you are doing here is constructing editorial units on the timeline that don’t yet have a definitive home on the timeline.
Would that be a fair description?
“It would be very fair, if not extremely accurate.
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[Tony West] “1. I don’t see how that’s faster 2. You can’t tell by reading if the audio is good or bad on the take. 3. I wouldn’t pay for transcripts on a small doc (because X makes it so easy and fast) 4. I wouldn’t pay you to sit there and read them.”
Tony, transcripts are an absolutely essential bedrock element for all video production from non-fiction broadcast tv to corporate promo and anything in between. Traditionally, the first stage of post production has involved a “paper edit”, which is obtained from the transcripts and which was usually created by a producer. This has changed over the years with the changing roles of producers and editors. Producers no longer sit with editors for the most part and so the paper edit no longer is a provided norm element. Editors now serve as producers by looking through transcripts and selecting the material that best suits the needs of the project.
I often work on projects where I do all of the story selection culling through the transcripts. In addition, I sometimes work with a client or producer who looks through the transcripts and makes their selects and then I also go through the material to see if there’s anything else that might work in addition to what has been previously selected. An experienced editor who’s forte is storytelling will be able to very quickly look through transcripts and pull the quotes that are gold. That’s our job as editors. And now with Digital Anarchy’s Transcriptive plugin the whole process is even more streamlined.
If you don’t make use of transcripts I would simply advocate that you give them a try on your next project. I think you’d be amazed at how much transcripts can streamline the entire post process of determining what material best serves a project.
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[greg janza] “Tony, transcripts are an absolutely essential bedrock element for all video production from non-fiction broadcast tv to corporate promo and anything in between.”
That may well be Greg, but I didn’t use transcripts when it came to source material and it didn’t stop me from getting my film done and it playing in 20 cities so far.
I had a creative consultant on my film and as I wrote the narration I would show it to him and to my narrator who read it.
they gave their input on it which was great. I had a member of the scientific community to check my science but he didn’t have input into the story accept to say he approved of how I handle the science.Producing a documentary is all about doing the research. Sometimes years of research. You are burying yourself in the topic and most times there are few people who can apply that kind of time and commitment to the research. Therefore they are not as knowledgeable on the topic. It is what it is.
[greg janza] “I often work on projects where I do all of the story selection culling through the transcripts.”
I’m sure you do, but you wouldn’t be doing any of that for me.
Take a look at this quote from Ken Burns…………….
“It’s difficult deciding on what’s essential to the story and what isn’t. I think that’s what I do for a living,” says Burns. “I’m credited with being a director, a producer, cinematographer, and co-writer, but I think the thing that I do is try to figure out what’s in and what’s out. There’s a moment in the Milos Forman film Amadeus where the Emperor critiques Mozart by saying, “there’s too many notes.” As you write whatever you’re writing, you struggle with more raw material than you have space or time, or more importantly an audience has interest in. And so you will then do what I do every day of my life which is edit and cut and figure out how to have that complexity survive in the service of very challenging narratives, but not have too many notes.
See how he says “What I do everyday” HE makes those decisions. He didn’t say I let my editor make them for me.
In my case I’m the editor also but even if I wasn’t, I would be counting the notes.
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