Mixing HDV and DSLR footage — capture and settings advice

[David Roth weiss]

Welcome Tom,

Before getting into any specifics, it’s important to know how you’re monitoring video at your place… Do you have an I/O card or device that allows you to feed a true video monitor? Because, if you don’t and you’re editing with computer monitors only, you’re simply not going to be able to tell when fields are displaying properly, and that’s going to be a big problem in this scenario with all these frame rates.

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles
https://www.drwfilms.com

POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™

A forum host of Creative COW’s Business & Marketing and Apple Final Cut Pro forums. Formerly host of the Apple Final Cut Basics, Indie Film & Documentary, and Film History & Appreciations forums.

[Tom Parker]

Unfortunately, no, I don’t have a video monitor attached to my editing setup. I’m editing on the 27″ iMac i7. So my situation is far from ideal. What video output options should I consider?

[David Roth weiss]

[Tom Parker] “What video output options should I consider?”

This is indeed the #1 problem with editing on the iMac, as I/O devices for them are very limited. The AJA IOHD is one of the few that are up to the task, but it’s very expensive and takes up 100% of your firewire capability too.

Leaving that aside for the moment, what exactly is final destination for this edited project Tom? If it’s Web only, then you’re okay… However, if you’re headed to tape or broadcast you’re going to have to see the fields properly to determine how to proceed, otherwise you will almost certainly encounter a problem at a later stage.

These fields issues when combining different frame rates and interlaced and progressive sources have no easy, one stop solution — the only way to insure you get everything behaving properly is to try it out and inspect for issues on a proper monitor, and then keep testing.

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles
https://www.drwfilms.com

POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™

A forum host of Creative COW’s Business & Marketing and Apple Final Cut Pro forums. Formerly host of the Apple Final Cut Basics, Indie Film & Documentary, and Film History & Appreciations forums.

[Tom Parker]

I expected some trade-offs and knew I might run into something like this. The final destination is not web-only. At the very least it’ll be output to Blu-Ray and SD DVD; broadcast is just a far-off dream but something we’re definitely shooting for. So… where do I go from here?

[David Roth weiss]

[Tom Parker] “So… where do I go from here?”

These are the most complicated of all questions here on the Cow because of the sheer number of variables involved. And, there isn’t a foolproof shortcut to be had. The only good news is that, unlike many clients of mine, you’re asking early in the process rather than at the end of the game, which gets exponentially more complicated to rectify.

I hate to say this Tom, but without the ability to monitor fields properly, there is no good way for you to just get moving immediately. Anyone who would try to help you over the Internet would be flying blind too, and if they get you started off wrong-footed, you will find yourself progressing toward a very uncertain outcome. There are horrendous pitfalls in these situations that can ruin entire projects. Imagine having to eyeball match things at the bitter end when time and money are short. That’s Hell…

My advice to you is that you must do at least one of the following three things:

1) Buy the hardware you need to monitor properly and work out the workflow with help from us here on the Cow.

2) Hire an experienced consultant who can test all of your various media types and work out a definitive workflow for you that you can do yourself, that is 100% seamless, that you can fully rely upon in spite of your inability to monitor properly at your own facility.

3) Have your non-matching material professionally converted to match the frame rate and field dominance of the bulk of your footage — at a facility that does this stuff regularly, preferably one that uses dedicated Teranex hardware, that will produce absolutely reliable video conversions.

I hope this advice helps you.

David

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles
https://www.drwfilms.com

POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™

A forum host of Creative COW’s Business & Marketing and Apple Final Cut Pro forums. Formerly host of the Apple Final Cut Basics, Indie Film & Documentary, and Film History & Appreciations forums.

[Frank Giardina]

Hi Tom…

I’m not an expert, but I am in a similar world. We shoot with the XH A1s and 7D. If you have a good amount or storage space, capturing your HDV ProRes422 is the way to go, it’s easier to work. I’m not there yet, but I plan on going that route in 2011. When you capture HDV as ProRes, it is 1440×1080, not full raster 1920×1080…so they won’t match exactly. But you don’t have to capture ProRes, you can capture HDV as HDV, and 7D as ProRes and just use a ProRes sequence setting. You’ll have to render more than you want, but it will work.

Frank Giardina
17 Video Production

[David Roth weiss]

Frank,

The problem Tom has has more complications than simply mixing HDV and DSLR footage. That would be easy to deal with… He’s got frame rate and fields issues galore, creating an exponentially higher degree of difficulty.

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles
https://www.drwfilms.com

POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™

A forum host of Creative COW’s Business & Marketing and Apple Final Cut Pro forums. Formerly host of the Apple Final Cut Basics, Indie Film & Documentary, and Film History & Appreciations forums.

[Tom Parker]

[David Roth Weiss] “The problem Tom has has more complications than simply mixing HDV and DSLR footage. That would be easy to deal with… He’s got frame rate and fields issues galore, creating an exponentially higher degree of difficulty.”

Thanks, Frank and David. David, your advice is very sound and it’s what I would do if I had the budget. I may at some point in the near future, but right now I’m sort of on my own. I need to at least get started enough to put together a trailer from these first interviews to generate some interest.

So if we simplified the problem and dealt strictly with the XH A1 1920×1080 30F and kept the DSLR to 1920×1080 30p, then is the consensus to capture as ProRes and edit in a ProRes timeline? Is there a benefit to keeping the HDV native for the edit, since I’ll be outputting to MPEG-2 when I’m done?

And David, maybe you should send me your rate for 2) above — I’m sure to get myself into trouble at some point!

[Rafael Amador]

[Tom Parker] “s there a benefit to keeping the HDV native for the edit, since I’ll be outputting to MPEG-2 when I’m done?”
Hi Tom, the H264 needs always to be transcoded because, as you know, is not supported.
Converting HDV in Prores would be necessary if you are working with few layers of video or applying many effects, etc. If not, keep your HDV as it is.
Your main issue, as David said, is to avoid problems with the different Time-bases.
Even if you are delivering in DVD, web video or whatever, is convenient that you edit in a Prores sequence.
Try always to make a top quality master and from that one make the different versions that you may need.
Cheers,
rafael
BTW, although you still working with HDV tapes, don’t miss Shane Ross’s tutorial on “Tapeless workflow” .

http://www.nagavideo.com

[Walter Soyka]

[David Roth Weiss] “Have your non-matching material professionally converted to match the frame rate and field dominance of the bulk of your footage — at a facility that does this stuff regularly, preferably one that uses dedicated Teranex hardware, that will produce absolutely reliable video conversions.”

I’ve noticed that Teranex seems to have most of the mindshare in the U.S., and Alchemist has most of the mindshare in London.

As I just mentioned in another thread here, Alchemist Ph.C. systems use motion compensation in their frame rate conversions, and the results are noticeably cleaner than Teranex.

That said, Teranex announced a motion-compensated frame rate converter at last year’s IBC. I don’t know if they’ve shipped yet, but I’d be curious how the new models compare.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
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