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Michael Cioni of Lightiron talking about Metadata, Hollywood, FCP X, and Premier.
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[Michael Hancock] “Here’s a sample of some of the metadata that Avid sees from the Arri camera, and this barely scratches the surface.
I have multiple bin views set up for specific editorial actions (logging/editing/conforming, etc…). So I can choose to see just take/framing/description/comments/location, etc…, then another that tells me frame rate/resolution/codec/CDL info, etc… It’s pretty powerful if you spend a little time getting to know it and setting it up. Plus it’s sortable and searchable.”
X has very similar fields and tools (as they should, ARRI metadata viewing isn’t proprietary). You can save different metadata views so that you can constantly change what you are seeing without having to use a bin to do it, or what’s relevant to that particular need. It doesn’t have to be ARRI specific, although there’s a ton of info that comes along with Arri footage.
Here’s a parietal list of all of the fields, plus you can add your own. What isn’t shown is log processing (basic LUTs that can be turned on and off per clip, or in a group, with a click) and other format based fields, but they are there:
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[Michael Hancock] “That’s pretty slick if it does. “
It does.
[Michael Hancock] “But I assume if that info isn’t embedded in the audio track it won’t be available, will it? “
The question is IF it is entered, can it even be parsed to begin with? If it’s lost, what’s the point of entering (embedding) it to begin with?? So that question is completely secondary if not irrelevant in this context. In the case of X: the more the merrier.
– RK
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Deutsch? Hier gibt es ein umfassendes FCP X Training für dich! -
[TImothy Auld] “From my perspective it is a lead pipe cinch that smaller operations are more likely to effectively use metadata.”
I don’t think anything is a lead pipe cinch in this industry with regards to workflows.
I haven’t run across similar situations as you Tim although if I had to make a blanket statement, in my experience larger operations have typically been more organized/better documented where as smaller ones had more of a tendency to keep things in their heads and go off of memory.
Some people/places are just more organized/willing to create and use metadata than others regardless of project scope, budget and/or size of the operation.
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[Robin S. Kurz] “The question is IF it is entered, can it even be parsed to begin with? If it’s lost, what’s the point of entering (embedding) it to begin with?? So that question is completely secondary if not irrelevant in this context. In the case of X: the more the merrier.”
Last I checked (and this was a while ago), if the audio is BWF the metadata comes through. If it’s MP3 it does not though I’ve read the workaround to keep the metadata is to convert MP3 audio to BWF and then import into Avid.
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[Robin S. Kurz] “Really? Well, on an aside, I’m not speaking exclusively of what comes in, but just as much about what is possible or can be added/edited/created/used AFTER import and in general, nor was there mention of *every* NLE, but rather specific ones. But show me where you find any or all of the infos pertaining to color profile, camera ID, manufacturer infos, date of import of a clip, lyricist for an audio track, tempo, key and/or time signature, which encoding app was used, camera angle and/or name, copyright infos, ISO speeds etc. etc. etc. in PPro (which has a lot of that, yes) let alone in Avid. I don’t know Avid in its latest incarnation so wouldn’t know where to look… but I also don’t believe it even has it to begin with.”
Michael has already posted some examples of Avid’s metadata options. Here’s Premiere Pro’s and these are categories with numerous fields in each.
The data that is stored automatically, is directly related to how well the camera manufacturer adheres to the SDK. For example, Panasonic has been very active for years in getting as much of the P2 data into FCP “legacy”, Avid and Adobe software. But with Avid, there are many things that go beyond mere linking of data from media sources.
Some examples:
Film metadata (now completely ignored by Adobe and Apple)
CDL color list information
ACES color management
Script-based linking of media to script text
The tracking of media independent of the project (Avid media knows which project created it)Another factor to note is that you can add any number of custom columns into an Avid bin. This is not possible in FCP X – custom fields are limited to the metadata panels, not the browser.
– Oliver
Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com -
[Andrew Kimery] “workflow junky”
Perhaps that should be the new forum name. 😉
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As an unrelated (maybe) but interesting aside, it was announced today that Panavision bought LightIron.
– Oliver
Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com -
[Oliver Peters] “As an unrelated (maybe) but interesting aside, it was announced today that Panavision bought LightIron.
“Walter already beat you to it. 😉
https://forums.creativecow.net/readpost/335/75741
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[Oliver Peters] “The first is that X works from a concept of exclusion. This was very much the core concept of Michael’s demo. You are getting rid of stuff. While that’s what we often do as editors, the nature of X makes it very easy to NOT go back and search through the throw-away takes for some gems. That’s because if you run with “hide rejected” or “show favorites” filtered, you often have to remind yourself to go back and look at these – simply because they are out of sight. Sometimes the best pieces are in otherwise “busted” takes.
The second thing I miss is a true rating system like I might use in Lightroom. It’s either Favorite or Rejected, not 1-5 or similar. I realize you could do that manually or with a Smart Collection, but it seems like it would be a valuable addition.”
Two notes.
First, in X you don’t have TWO primary filters Show Favorites and Hide Reject. You have a third. Unrated. At first, I made the mistake of thinking this was just the absence of the other two. Now I understand that it’s it’s own rating. So it’s super easy to divide things into THREE buckets. DEFINITELY NO: Reject – which might include true crap like “we left the camera running while it was pointed at the wall” – DEFINITELY PROBABLY YES: which is FAVORITE – and the third category – Unrated – which simply means that I haven’t made a decision about it yet. So Oliver, respectfully, I don’t think this is about the tool – it’s abut how the user conditions themself to use it. Not re-visiting Rejects is a user choice. NOT a software feature. I covered this directly in my MacBreak guest shot here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WBVnt4eBdI&list=PL607BE2B2BFE9BE1A&index=1
The other note is that my friend Alex Gollner (Alex4d) in London surprised me nearly a year ago when he custom built a set of Keyword Collection tags that literally uses stars instead of ascii characters. So he has 1 star to 5 star ratings available in his keyword system for all his Events and Projects. Again, it’s not that it’s not there. Its that it’s left up to the user to customize the workflow that fits your needs.
FWIW.
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This has nothing to do with X, but you talking about Good, Bad and Unrated reminded me that every time I sort things (either physical or virtual) they have to get labeled somehow. For example, if the unlabeled pile means good and the labeled pile means bad I always wonder if I accidentally missed something because “I accidentally skipped this one” and “this one is good” look exactly the same. When I’m sorting things everything has to get a label as that acts as a built in verification that I haven’t overlooked anything.
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