Michael Cioni + frame io

[Greg Janza]

I think maybe there’s a disconnect here. If I understand you, you want to create one split track file that can be used for two different purposes – to review on Frame.io by your producer and then to also be downloaded and used by your editor to edit with.

Oliver and I have stated that if you upload a split track file directly to the frame.io website you will then be able to do what you’ve requested.

If you’re saying that you can’t have a file that’s split track after exporting that split track file out of FCPX and uploading it directly to Frame.io then the problem lies solely with FCPX.

But I’m also wondering why you’re spending so much energy on something so simple. Even if you didn’t use the extension, uploading split track files to the frame.io site directly is still easy peasy.

https://www.linkedin.com/in/tmprods
tallmanproductions.net

[Greg Janza]

I would recommend that you abandon QT7 completely. To check the accuracy of a split track file import it into an NLE.

And for file playback use this instead: https://iina.io/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/tmprods
tallmanproductions.net

[Tom Sefton]

Hi Tony,

We’ve found a few inconsistencies in frame.io with uploads too. Non standard frame sizes can crash the upload process from inside FCPX, and delivering 5.1 sound has been glitchy.

The best way around this was for us to use a watch folder with the desktop app instead of using the app inside FCPX. This way we can export a ProRes master (if needed), a H264 and a HEVC file with different audio routing.

We’ve had pretty good success with this, but the app inside FCPX bit us so badly with a couple of pressurised uploads that we’ve largely stopped using it.

Co-owner at Pollen Studio
http://www.pollenstudio.co.uk

[Tony West]

[greg janza] “I think maybe there’s a disconnect here. If I understand you, you want to create one split track file that can be used for two different purposes – to review on Frame.io by your producer and then to also be downloaded and used by your editor to edit with.”

yes.

[greg janza] “Oliver and I have stated that if you upload a split track file directly to the frame.io website you will then be able to do what you’ve requested.”

And I stated to both of you that is incorrect. Even if you drag the spilt file into Frame io directly Frame io cannot read that file correctly. Meaning you will not hear all of the tracks for review.

[greg janza] “But I’m also wondering why you’re spending so much energy on something so simple. Even if you didn’t use the extension, uploading split track files to the frame.io site directly is still easy peasy.”

First of all, the extension is meant to be used and is no problem at all unless you are sending spilt tracks.

You and Oliver keep saying that you can upload a split track file directly to Frame (without the extension)and it will work.

Did you read Frame’s reply to that? It doesn’t work.

The reason I’m spending time on it is because when they fix it that will save me time. The same reason other editors have asked them about it.

[Greg Janza]

Tony, it must be something with how you’re exporting out of FCPX.

I just tested a 6 channel split track mono pro res file that had been uploaded directly to Frame.io. I downloaded it from Frame.io and then imported it into Premiere and it remains a 6 channel split track mono pro res file.

https://www.linkedin.com/in/tmprods
tallmanproductions.net

[Michael Hancock]

I believe Tony is saying that if you watch it on Frame.io you won’t hear all 6 channels, or at least not discretely. It will be a stereo mix, or it just completely dumps some of the channels.

Is that correct Tony?

—————-
Michael Hancock
Editor

[Oliver Peters]

[Tony West] “You and Oliver keep saying that you can upload a split track file directly to Frame (without the extension)and it will work. “

The fundamental disconnect is that you seem to be talking about uploading via the extension and then properly monitoring discreet tracks on Frame. Greg and I are talking about uploading through the standard web portal and then downloading the same originals from a link you would send to your client. The latter works without question.

I see no way that the Frame player interface itself will ever properly provide discrete audio playback of multiple channel, 2, 4, 8, whatever, without either mixing or not playing some of the tracks. But the download via a portal upload is fine.

– Oliver

Oliver Peters – oliverpeters.com

[Oliver Peters]

I ran a quick test, since I was curious as to what was happening. ProRes Proxy file copied from an Alexa clip with lav + boom on separate tracks, left + right. I brought the clip into FCPX and then uploaded it to Frame directly from the FCPX browser using the extension.

I did two uploads – one with the clip set to stereo and the other set to dual mono. When I played back both files, using the extension panel, as well as the web portal, I still heard the channels separated on my speakers. I downloaded both files and they were the same as uploaded – ProRes Proxy with audio on 2 different channels.

So my question is, are you going through a project timeline first? Could it be that your camera clips are ID’ed as dual mono? This would sum them to mono on a stereo timeline. If so, that’s completely normal and the extension is doing everything correctly.

When I uploaded a clip using the Frame H264 share setting, dual mono audio was summed. IOW it reacted as if it had been placed on a timeline and shared. When I set the clip to stereo, the separate left+right configuration came through correctly.

From what I can tell, the extension seems to be performing as one would expect.

– Oliver

Oliver Peters – oliverpeters.com

[Michael Gissing]

Redshark reported this as- “Frame.io hires Michael Cioni, thereby changing everything we know about workflows”. I don’t see how this will be. The cloud is taking it’s sweet time to be an integral part of post workflows but I don’t see the problem as tools like Frame.io, Vimeo, WeTransfer etc letting us down. The real let down for many is just access to cheap enough, fast enough internet to make the option of uploading camera rushes to the cloud instead of using cheap hard drives.

Honestly in my country it is not even a race to see if 4TB of data can be uploaded faster than flying a hard drive from one side of the country to the other. Given we are sold on the idea that we can swan around editing anywhere on a laptop, internet access, speed and affordability needs to be compared to a cheap portable drive. Sure long distance collaborative workflows would be nice and cloud based storage of rushes makes this possible but I’m not being held back by services like Vimeo or Frame.io as much as cost/ speed benefits of fast enough internet access.

I think “Cloud” has been hyped for long enough for us to realise there are bottlenecks that have nothing to do with software like Frame.io. I’m sure Michael Cioni is a whizz at organising sensible and efficient workflows for many applications but changing everything we know?

[Tony West]

[Oliver Peters] “Could it be that your camera clips are ID’ed as dual mono? This would sum them to mono on a stereo timeline. If so, that’s completely normal and the extension is doing everything correctly.”

I don’t think that’s the problem because in other tests that I have done where the talent mic is set to duel mono and the music and effects are stereo, the stereo tracks don’t come through in Frame either if the project clip is exported as multi separate clips.

It seems pretty simple. if I can hear all the tracks on my computer before I send it to them, then I should hear them inside Frame also.

One thing that might be helpful is if you post the Frame link to the test file you are talking about. Make it downloadable and then I will download it and inspect it. If it’s what you say it is then I can go back to Frame and show it to them.