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Major FCP7 Bug OR AJA Kona Bug?
Maybe this is caused because the original project was edit in FCP 6.0.6. Let me explain and show you what I am talking about.
I have a project that was captured ProRes422 using the HDV-ProRes conversion technique. This doen to save time on logging and capturing HDV footage. We have three systems that use Kona cards (the G5 uses a Kona2, and the MacPro’s use the Kona3) the cards are all up to date with the latest drivers.
As you all have know from a previous post of mine, when you do the HDV-ProRes conversion, your video stays in the 1440×1080 frame size. Since the Kona cards don’t understand this form of ProRes, we end up having to use another Easy Setup like AJA’s 1080i 29.97 DVCProHD. This works just fine since DVCProHD is a non-square pixel format, just like the HDV conversion video.
Here’s one of the problems… ProRes422 by its nature is a square pixel format, not the non-square that the HDV-ProRes covnersion does. First red flag…!
Well, under FCP 6.0.6, editing ProRes using the HDV-ProRes conversion and setting my Kona card to DVCProHD is not an issue or problem.
BUT…
When open this project and sequence under the new FCP7 using the same settings as with FCP 6.0.6. Now, when you try to play a rendered sequence, the audio stutters terribly and starts to slow down like when you put you finger on a record being played on a turntable (hopefully you remember this old type of music device).
When you change your Easy Setup to 1080i 29.97 ProRes422, the broadcast monitor now has a distorted, fuzz, negative image of your video BUT the audio is correct.
The ONLY fix is to create a new sequence using ProRes422 and copying the old sequence into it, then manually repair all of the incorrect aspect ratios conversions with your graphics and anything on video tracks 2 and above. Most everything that is copied into video track 1 is adjusted properly and automatically. Then you have to re-render the entire sequence all over again… This is what really bites.
I’m not sure if this is a bug with FCP7 or maybe an issue that we need to work with AJA on. I’ll cross-post this on the Kona forum, too.
No one ever said upgrades are smooth….
_______________________________
Wayne Carey
Schazam Productions
https://web.mac.com/schazamproductions
schazamproductions@mac.com -
7 Replies
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[Wayne Carey] “As you all have know from a previous post of mine, when you do the HDV-ProRes conversion, your video stays in the 1440×1080 frame size. Since the Kona cards don’t understand this form of ProRes, we end up having to use another Easy Setup like AJA’s 1080i 29.97 DVCProHD. This works just fine since DVCProHD is a non-square pixel format, just like the HDV conversion video. “
Wayne,
If you simply drop a ProRes clip at 1440×1080 onto a new timeline FCP certainly understands it. You simply need to set View>>Video Playback to AJA Kona 1080i29.07 8-bit (1920×1080) to display to an HD monitor.
David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los AngelesPOST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™
A forum host of Creative COW’s Apple Final Cut Pro, Business & Marketing, Indie Film & Documentary, and Film History & Appreciations forums.
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Thank you, David. I am aware of this and this is exactly what I am doing.
The issues come from the other video tracks. I have a program that uses interviews within and in the interviews we have about three layers of video. If I copy these from an older timeline and paste this into the new timeline, only the first video track is translated properly, after that I have to adjust manually from video track.
Try it…
_______________________________
Wayne Carey
Schazam Productions
https://web.mac.com/schazamproductions
schazamproductions@mac.com -
So you’re converting HDV to ProRes via Firewire and not the Konas? I can say that footage converted via the Kona to ProRes in FCP 6 is presenting no issues in FCP 7, but then it comes through as full square 1920×1080 when converted that way.
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Editor, Colorist, Director, Writer, Consultant, Author.
Credits include multiple Emmy, Telly, Aurora and Peabody Awards.
Owner, Biscardi Creative Media featuring HD Post
Biscardi Creative MediaCreative Cow Forum Host:
Apple Final Cut Pro, Apple Motion, Apple Color, AJA Kona, Business & Marketing, Maxx Digital. -
[walter biscardi] “So you’re converting HDV to ProRes via Firewire and not the Konas?”
Yes.
[walter biscardi] “I can say that footage converted via the Kona to ProRes in FCP 6 is presenting no issues in FCP 7, but then it comes through as full square 1920×1080 when converted that way.”
Yes, again… I can say that you’re 100% right about this. BUT, here’s the problem with capturing this way under a time constraint. Most shows (weekly episodes) can have around 7 – 10 HDV tapes. Logging and capturing (the best quality method) the old way gets extremely time intensive. Capturing thru firewire, I can do this in a day and then another day to filter thru the footage. Logging and capturing the footage can take upwards of 3 – 4 days (unless I don’t wanna sleep).
_______________________________
Wayne Carey
Schazam Productions
https://web.mac.com/schazamproductions
schazamproductions@mac.com -
[Wayne Carey] ” Most shows (weekly episodes) can have around 7 – 10 HDV tapes. Logging and capturing (the best quality method) the old way gets extremely time intensive. Capturing thru firewire, I can do this in a day and then another day to filter thru the footage. Logging and capturing the footage can take upwards of 3 – 4 days (unless I don’t wanna sleep). “
What’s the difference? You can capture entire tapes using the Kona just as easily as using Firewire.
We control the decks via Firewire.
We capture through the Kona.
If you want to capture In to Out, just set an In Point at the head, Out Point at the tail.
I don’t see the difference in this or what your’e doing except for that Start / Stop detect feature, which Make New Clip at each Timecode Break will also do. You certainly wouldn’t have to monkey around with the 1440×1080 ProRes issue which as you noted, ProRes is a square codec.
Yeah, it’d be nice if Start/Stop detect would work during regular log and capture, but I can’t see it taking more than a day and a half to capture all the tapes in.
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Editor, Colorist, Director, Writer, Consultant, Author.
Credits include multiple Emmy, Telly, Aurora and Peabody Awards.
Owner, Biscardi Creative Media featuring HD Post
Biscardi Creative MediaCreative Cow Forum Host:
Apple Final Cut Pro, Apple Motion, Apple Color, AJA Kona, Business & Marketing, Maxx Digital. -
[walter biscardi] “What’s the difference? You can capture entire tapes using the Kona just as easily as using Firewire.
We control the decks via Firewire.
We capture through the Kona. “
This is what workflow we have used for years, converting to DVCProHD. But now, since more work has come in the door and we have more to do. We needed to look for a more streamlined faster workflow (still working on this…). We work primarily with XDCAM HD (35 mbit) and HDV.
[walter biscardi] “If you want to capture In to Out, just set an In Point at the head, Out Point at the tail.
I don’t see the difference in this or what your’e doing except for that Start / Stop detect feature, which Make New Clip at each Timecode Break will also do”
We’ve tried this but what you end up with is one large clip unless you have hard timecode breaks. Start/Stop is a different animal. Start/Stop would be the answer to everyone’s capturing headaches, if they could do this from any type of capture. I would do this in a heart beat, but we haven’t had such luck yet.
We haven’t tried to see if FCP7’s “Make New Clip” on timecode break works this way. I’ll try it today.
[walter biscardi] “I can’t see it taking more than a day and a half to capture all the tapes in. “
It wouldn’t if there weren’t about 100 takes on each tape. The more clips on a tape, the longer to log and capture.
_______________________________
Wayne Carey
Schazam Productions
https://web.mac.com/schazamproductions
schazamproductions@mac.com -
Have you contacted AJA about this?
It might not be too difficult for them to add thin raster ProRes support in a driver update, if they knew anyone was actually using that workflow. The card obviously can handle it, since it already supports playback of that frame size with native HDV (with the card performing the scaling to 1920).
Also, have you tried making an HDV sequence, changing the compressor to ProRes….keeping the kona @ 8 bit 1920 x. 1080? Apparently, that didn\’t work before, but perhaps now it does?
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