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MacBook Pros “underpowered?” Not for FCP X editors. Not AT ALL.
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[Shawn Miller] “Lastly, everything you’re saying about PPro CS5 could be said about Motion today”
Apart that it isn’t a great NLE ☺ Motion is, at least, reliable. CS5 certainly wasn’t for a long time
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[Shawn Miller] “Of the corporate producers I know, about half of them are on Windows and the other half is on OSX. As (maybe) a curious side note, it seems like the more they lean toward 3D/VFX/mograph work (AE, C4D, Max), the more likely they seem to be on Windows, I’ve also seen a number of people switching in the last few years as they move from FCP, or consider hardware upgrades.
“Over the last 10yrs or so there certainly seems to have been an influx of Macs into the ‘no one ever got fired for buying IBM’ world. For 3D and animation work I too generally think of that as PC dominated. Which makes since because a render farm of PCs can be cheaper and faster than a render farm of Macs and PCs have a lot more flexibility when it comes to GPUs, drivers, etc.,. I mean, it’s only been in the last few years (I think since 10.9) that you could put pretty much any GPU in a Mac as opposed to only Mac-specific GPUs. AFAIK even now non-Mac GPUs still don’t fully function if installed on a Mac (you lose the boot screen which means no access to pre-boot features like Safe Mode, selecting a different boot drive, etc.,).
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[Steve Connor] “[Shawn Miller] “Lastly, everything you’re saying about PPro CS5 could be said about Motion today”
Apart that it isn’t a great NLE ☺ Motion is, at least, reliable. “”
lol – okay, I’ll concede that Motion is a crappy NLE. My guess though, is that if you put the question to a number of advanced AE users who tried to use Motion the same way they use After Effects, you might get a different answer.
[Steve Connor]“CS5 certainly wasn’t for a long time”
I never really had major problems with any of the CS applications, but I do understand that others did… just as some people have show stopping issues with CC now.. I don’t… but I know that others do. ☺
Shawn
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[Walter Soyka] “I’d have to let others speak for Avid, but Adobe has done quite a lot to move the industry forward.
First, there’s the whole “suite” concept. Adobe’s products work together and their offerings extend way beyond video. You can produce an entire campaign across multiple media and channels, using Adobe products the whole way though.
There’s Creative Cloud. I know a lot of folks here are opposed to subscription pricing, but this is a major game changer for small and large agencies alike that makes costs both predictable and scalable and makes it easier to stay up-to-date.
There are the other services Adobe offers, like TypeKit, Stock, Marketing Cloud. I’m really curious to see what Adobe Sensei (Adobe’s new machine learning platform) will bring.”
Your Smoke, et al – comments are fair. But I’d counter that features at the highest end of the industry don’t benefit many – and it’s only when somebody comes along to offer the same thing at a fraction of the price that the benefit of the new ideas takes on real market power. But, again, it’s a fair point.
As to the next group of “features” you list, I’d simply ask, how can this be seen as moving the “industry” forward, if the ONLY way you can get access to any of this is to use Adobe products? Is that “industry innovation” or just one company’s product development goals.
Basically, where is the adoption of this model (or even significant aspects of it) beyond Adobe’s offerings? I don’t see AVID or Apple, or BlackMagic or anyone else looking to build a broad array of software modules in an “all rental” model.
Maybe Affinity will do so over time? But right now, they seem to feel that just selling software the regular way is enough of a business model to serve their customers.
I’d ask, can you move an “industry” forward, if the concepts you are promoting don’t actually spread across the industry?
Also, Walter, you mentioned skimming vs hover scrub earlier. X had skimming on it’s introduction in 2011. IIRC, Premiere Pro didn’t incorporate haver scrub until 3-5 years later – or am I mistaken about that? Do you recall when PPro released hover scrub?
As to the innovative features of the product itself, dynamic link is a winner. Obviously, it again only works inside the CC suite, but I understand it provides tremendous user benefits, so good on that.
I’m having a bit of difficulties with the rest because in VR and HDR , it seems I have all of that available to me as well – just done in the Apple fashion of external modules from 3rd party vendors rather than bolted into the software in a fashion where editors that may not have any need for the capabilities, get lumped in a pool paying for their development anyway. Touch (actually multi-touch) is an iOS strength so I’m not worried about that for editing. My laptop trackpad enables that for me when doing primary editing, and I suspect that the Apple ecosystem will continue to merge MacOS and iOS and touch will be an ever increasing part of my life going forward as well.
Everything else, again, seems like features that ONLY apply to the Adobe way. I don’t see those things as being “industry influencers” – but maybe I’ll prove to be entirely wrong.
Maybe in the coming years, BlackMagic, AVID (if it survives) and even Apple will all switch to doing their best to control a single cloud-locked experience for editors, rather than via a simpler system of encouraging ownership of creative enabling programs – designed to be controlled exclusively by the end user without need for ongoing payment.
Hope not though.
Not my style.
I would argue that the largest “innovation” Adobe has brought to the table so far hasn’t been any feature or even concept, but rather the “subscription” model.
It’s changed things the most. And also, as you know, worries me the most.
What’s next?
Subscription grocery stores? Subscription gas stations?
Actually, one of the doctors in my area just tried that. He was highly rated, so he suddenly moved to a “conceriege” doctor model via office subscriptions. If you don’t pay a monthly or yearly “retainer”, you can’t get any medical care in his practice. THAT felt AWFULLY scary to me. What if THAT model catches on across the medical industry? Pay when you’re well, or you don’t get to pay when you’re sick. Yikes.I don’t actually see customers clamoring for MORE monthly subscription models in other categories beyond software. Or am I missing something and the tide is sweeping in that direction out there?.
Fun to speculate. And thanks for being a reasoned voice here, always.
; )
Creator of XinTwo – https://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery. -
[Andrew Kimery] “[Shawn Miller] “Of the corporate producers I know, about half of them are on Windows and the other half is on OSX. As (maybe) a curious side note, it seems like the more they lean toward 3D/VFX/mograph work (AE, C4D, Max), the more likely they seem to be on Windows, I’ve also seen a number of people switching in the last few years as they move from FCP, or consider hardware upgrades.
”Over the last 10yrs or so there certainly seems to have been an influx of Macs into the ‘no one ever got fired for buying IBM’ world. For 3D and animation work I too generally think of that as PC dominated. Which makes since because a render farm of PCs can be cheaper and faster than a render farm of Macs and PCs have a lot more flexibility when it comes to GPUs, drivers, etc.,. I mean, it’s only been in the last few years (I think since 10.9) that you could put pretty much any GPU in a Mac as opposed to only Mac-specific GPUs. AFAIK even now non-Mac GPUs still don’t fully function if installed on a Mac (you lose the boot screen which means no access to pre-boot features like Safe Mode, selecting a different boot drive, etc.,).”
Good points all, I didn’t know that non-Mac GPUs behaved any differently on the newer versions of the Mac OS. What’s really kind of interesting and exiting in the world of 3D right now is the rise of powerful, inexpensive renderers that can give you fast previews of your work. With enough CPU or GPU power, you can now limit the number of times that you have to render out previews before sending out to a render farm – and this is where I’m seeing more 3D artists switch to Windows… they want faster previews, and Apple just isn’t offering the hardware that will let them do that.
Shawn
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[Shawn Miller] “and this is where I’m seeing more 3D artists switch to Windows… they want faster previews, and Apple just isn’t offering the hardware that will let them do that.
“Nor will they ever, I suspect
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[Bill Davis] “I’d ask, can you move an “industry” forward, if the concepts you are promoting don’t actually spread across the industry?”
What exactly has “spread across the industry” from FCPX?
Hoover scrub? As has been pointed out X might have the best implementation but not the first. PPro had it within a year of FCPX’s release, which gives credence to the notion that they were working on it simultaneously.
Magnetic Timeline? Auditions? Roles? Keyword Ranges? – They are innovative, but they are as unique to X after 6 years as dynamic link is to Adobe.
So how has X “advanced the industry” to use your definition?
As for subscriptions – It doesn’t seem to bother you that Lumberjack is subscription only, so why single out Adobe in this matter?
Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
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nothin\’ attached to nothin\’
\”Deciding the spine is the process of editing\” F. Bieberkopf -
[Shawn Miller] “lol – okay, I’ll concede that Motion is a crappy NLE. My guess though, is that if you put the question to a number of advanced AE users who tried to use Motion the same way they use After Effects, you might get a different answer.”
Wow does THAT sound familiar.
Term Swap ahead…
“My guess though, is that if you put the question to a number of advanced Premiere Pro users who tried to use FCPX in the same way they use Premiere Pro, you might get a different answer.”
Two DIFFERENT programs – designed around different concepts.
AE is a decades old, highly regarded and highly developed standalone program that before subscriptions, was sold at a relatively high price to specialists.
Motion was similar UNTIL the X change.
Now the Apple landscape is significantly different. Part of the Motion code was sucked directly into X as the titler and graphics management engine. Another part of it is STILL what it was originally, but it’s now largely seen as a $49 add-on to X that leverages much of it’s “standalone” history to include a ton of advanced capabilities – but it’s no longer being developed primarily as a stand-alone motion graphics package.
Today it fits perfectly in the Apple vision. X is the HUB of content creation in the Apple ecosystem. Motion, and Comperssor are satellites that leverage additional capabilities into X – but only for those that need those capabilities.
Apple no longer really positions Motion as the monolithic application as it used to.
For Apple the FOCUS of content creation has been X from day one. For Adobe, the FOCUS is a suite of a dozen plus separate entities that all exist outside any central hub – and only link up when the user of one program needs to exchange with another.
FCP X is surely different – it’s focus is currently still on single seat video editing acting as the HUB application for everything else – a position that I don’t think Premiere Pro will ever occupy in the Adobe Universe.
That’s not a criticism, it’s merely a fact.
Premiere Pro is one application in a suite of many. FCP X is the main focus of the Apple video software world. Nothing competes directly for attention or resources unless you spin that telephones or maybe cars do that. But the pace of X development over the past 6 years kinda disproves that much of anything has been diverted whatever is necessary for robust on-going development.
Both Premiere Pro and FCP X have shown that their next great challenge is moving beyond single seat and into collaborative workflows.
Adobe Anywhere telegraphs this.
Roles in X does the same thing (in my opinion.)But they are WAY different approaches, to my mind.
FWIW.
Creator of XinTwo – https://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery. -
[Steve Connor] “[Shawn Miller] “and this is where I’m seeing more 3D artists switch to Windows… they want faster previews, and Apple just isn’t offering the hardware that will let them do that.
”Nor will they ever, I suspect”
That’s too bad… I would like to have an Apple workstation in my setup at some point. You’re probably right though, they don’t seem all that interested in building the kind of machine that would be useful to me. ☹
Shawn
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[Shawn Miller] “You’re probably right though, they don’t seem all that interested in building the kind of machine that would be useful to me. ☹”
and Bill will no doubt tell us what a great move by Apple that is
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