KONA/FCP layoff problems

[Jeremy Garchow]

What is your frame offset set to in your prefs?

What is your deck control set to in the capture preset?

Have you calibrated the deck to fcp and vice-versa?

Is the same deck whne laying off also being fed to the input of the Kona?

[Mark Spano]

[Jeremy Garchow] “What is your frame offset set to in your prefs?”

Set to 0 as per AJA.

[Jeremy Garchow] “What is your deck control set to in the capture preset?”

It was set to AJA KONA LH: 29.97 Sony A – been getting some better results due to another suggestion to try Sony B. Noting the only difference between the two is that the Capture Offset in Sony A is -1.5 and in Sony B is -2. I am now assuming that the Capture Offset is really a “TC Read Offset” and that the TC sense coming over 9-pin factors in both capture and edit to tape.

[Jeremy Garchow] “Have you calibrated the deck to fcp and vice-versa?”

I feel like I’ve done this a bunch of times with the A protocol – but since this problem is intermittent, I am never sure if it’s right.

[Jeremy Garchow] “Is the same deck whne laying off also being fed to the input of the Kona?”

Yes.

I wish there was a clear explanation and setup procedure for using AJA’s cards in conjunction with decks. I am thankful to have other people on the net who have come across the same issues as I have and have also figured out workarounds, but these things should be explicit in the manual – specifically how to achieve perfect frame-accurate captures and edits to tape, and how to factor delay times for up/down/cross-conversions. I’ve done a lot of my own research into these areas and every now and then am thrown off by a frame or fractions of.

[Jeremy Garchow]

[Mark Spano] “specifically how to achieve perfect frame-accurate captures and edits to tape, and how to factor delay times for up/down/cross-conversions.”

Since there’s over a million combinations (format, frame rate, codec, environment, etc), this is pretty much futile. You will have to test your config and your setup and find the right one. If doing a conversion (up/down/cross) you can pretty much settle on one frame delay.

[Mark Spano] “I feel like I’ve done this a bunch of times with the A protocol – but since this problem is intermittent, I am never sure if it’s right. “

I’d suggest you read the manual in this regard as it really does have a very good explanation of this process. Now that Apple has made the manual available and searchable on the interwebs, here’s the page:

https://documentation.apple.com/en/finalcutpro/usermanual/index.html#chapter=114%26section=4%26tasks=true

Jeremy

[Mark Spano]

Jeremy,

I have read the manual top to bottom. It is still eluding me how to get the behavior to be consistent. I follow the procedures step by step to establish a capture offset with one deck. This is capturing a bunch of times off a striped tape with white pops/beeps at specific timecodes. Great, seems consistent at -2. Now I go to edit to tape some of the footage I just captured. Duplicate frames. I set the Playback Offset to zero (like the manual says) and try again. Count the number of duplicated frames (in this case, 2) and enter that in. Edit to tape again, great, it’s in on the right frame, no duplicate frames. But now, the audio comes in either one field or one frame late. NOT consistently. So here is the rub – there is no way to change audio/video playback offset independently. That, to me, makes Edit To Tape with this configuration unreliable. I would even not mind if the offset were consistently one value, I could factor it into my sequences. But since it’s off by fractions of a frame, and differently each time, it’s useless.

[Jeremy Garchow] “If doing a conversion (up/down/cross) you can pretty much settle on one frame delay.”

These are my results of my prior testing. I ran them by AJA and they confirmed that this is what I should be getting. It’s not consistent, and they agree with my findings. Also – NOT in the manuals…

—
KONA 3 Output – Delay Compensation for Video Conversion

When not performing any conversion on resolution or frame rate, the KONA 3 is frame accurate in edit to tape for video and audio.

—
When upconverting (for example, 525i29.97 to 1080i29.97 – only resolution, not changing frame rate) the output from KONA 3 is frame accurate for audio and 1 frame late for video.

To compensate for this, shift video in sequence earlier by one frame.

When downconverting (for example, 1080i29.97 to 525i29.97 – only resolution, not changing frame rate) the output from KONA 3 is frame accurate for audio and 1 frame late for video.

To compensate for this, shift video in sequence earlier by one frame.
—

—
When converting (1080sf23.976 to 1080i29.97 – adding pulldown only, not changing resolution) the output from KONA 3 is frame accurate for both video and audio.
—

—
When crossconverting (720p59.94 to 1080i29.97) the output from KONA 3 is frame accurate for video and audio is one field early in 29.97i.

When downconverting (720p23.976 to 525i29.97) the output from KONA 3 is frame accurate for video and audio is one field early in 29.97i.

When crossconverting (720p23.976 to 1080i29.97) the output from KONA 3 is frame accurate for video and audio is approximately .4 frame early in 29.97i.

The only true solution to compensate for these types of conversions is to do a separate edit for video (at conversion) and audio (with no conversion), since audio can not easily be shifted accurately by less than a frame in FCP. Or open the audio track in Pro Tools and add the delay time to the beginning of the track, consolidate, and export, then import that into FCP and replace the audio in your sequence with your delay-compensated file.

[Jeremy Garchow]

What does your timeline look like? Do you have any generators or slugs or open gaps where you are trying to assemble?

[Mark Spano]

This one I’ve been testing with only has the clips I captured from tape. No generators, slugs, or gaps. Just solid media.

Sequence: 1080i 59.94 (29.97 fps) Upper First
1 video, 2 audio tracks

[Jeremy Garchow]

OK, so try putting a second of a slug in front of your media and start the assemble in that slug.

[Mark Spano]

Dropped a slug in, had same results. Doing insert edits, if that makes any difference. I started over again. After resetting the prefs and blowing away all of the custom easy setups, I started with a DVW-A500 and the KONA LHe. This was the resulting DCP:

Then I had to set a different one for the SRW-5500:

Then I had to set a different one for the SRW-5500 at 24p:

It sort of makes sense to do this, but a really frustrating task nonetheless. Occasionally, as well, I would get differing landing points on tape for audio/video – I still haven’t found a solution for that, other than restart and sometimes it just fixes itself. I am always going to be suspect about editing to tape with these configs. I’m just not able to be 100% sure this’ll work every time because of the inconsistency. Is there still something I’m overlooking in the setup? I’m going to try in the next day or two to do this whole process over again with the KONA 3.

[Mark Spano]

Go figure – KONA 3 was the same setup for all three: -1.5 capture, +1 playback offset. This same setting on Friday didn’t work for me though, with duplicate frames and out-of-syncitude. It’s got me laying everything off with a flash/pop now so I can verify. Ugh – I am going to chalk it up to gremlins and call it a night.

[Jeremy Garchow]

Ah, the Quit and Go Home Early Method.

Has worked for me many times. 😉

Jeremy