-
Kona3 Issues
Hello all,
I have been testing my new Kona3 card and have been experiencing some issues:
1) VFR – I remember reading a post about this in the VariCam Cow forum within my thread “Variable Framerates”. It seems when the card is used to capture media at off-speeds it only records the length of time in the timecode, not the entire tape. For instance, we recorded off-speed and I captured directly from the camera using capture now; in order to get the whole slo-mo scene, I would have to leave the capture running for an additional minute after the scene was finished. This is because the card brings the media in and converts it to slo-mo on the fly. We captured to tape afterward, and the same thing happened, I could only get the length of TIME we had recorded in slo-mo, if we captured it via firewire without the card, this would give us the whole tape and then it could be converted using Panasonic’s FRC plug-in for Final Cut Pro. This all makes sense in how and why it is happening, but there must be a workaround via the card. Right now, it seems the camera operator would have to continue recording for awhile after the off-speed scene if finished.
2) Timecode – (this may be more of a Final Cut Pro question) Using the VariCam as a deck, I could not see timecode reading through my Log & Capture window. The Kona Control Panel shows RP-188 Timecode and reads it perfectly from the camera, however this timecode does not read or record into FCP for capture. Am I missing something, some step?
Any help is VERY MUCH appreciated! We have a project coming up with the VariCam and we are testing for issues between it and the Kona3 card.
Thanks In Advance!
~Athen -
11 Replies
-
[Athenross] “It seems when the card is used to capture media at off-speeds it only records the length of time in the timecode, not the entire tape. For instance, we recorded off-speed and I captured directly from the camera using capture now; in order to get the whole slo-mo scene”
Yes, this is FCP, not the Kona 3. FCP does not know to calculate for the off-speed when capturing. So if you have log a shot that’s 30 seconds in timecode, but you’re going to capture it directly in slo-mo, then you’ll end up with only half of your shot. FCP sees that you have captured 30 seconds and stops the capture.
There’s two ways around this. Double the Logged clip so for your 30 second shot, change the TC so it’s a 65 second shot. Or you can use the Variable Frame Rate Converter from Panasonic AFTER you’ve already captured the shots. This works very well if you have a LOT of slo mo shots. For this method I’ll create a seperate project just to convert all the footage correctly and then bring all the converted shots back into the main project.
This is not an Kona issue at all. It’s just that FCP cannot calculate that you are bringing in your media off-speed.
[Athenross] “2) Timecode – (this may be more of a Final Cut Pro question) Using the VariCam as a deck, I could not see timecode reading through my Log & Capture window. The Kona Control Panel shows RP-188 Timecode and reads it perfectly from the camera, however this timecode does not read or record into FCP for capture. Am I missing something, some step?”
What deck and what kind of control? Sounds like you don’t have your A/V settings correct for your deck control. I run a Panasonic AJ-HD1200A here both with DVCPro HD (Firewire) and RS-422 control with no issues.
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
https://www.biscardicreative.com“I reject your reality and substitute my own!” – Adam Savage, Mythbusters
-
Walter,
You missed the part where Athen explained he is using the camera (varicam) as the playback device for capturing.
Why anyone would want to abuse the transport in the camera (for long term capturing) thereby subjecting the transport additional wear and tear is beyond me? But the real issue lies in the fact that although the timecode is embedded in the HDSDI signal FCP still requires RS 422 control to capture the timecode off tape. One major reason why a studio vtr is required for long term capturing.
I believe there is a third party workaround which could extract the embedded tc and turn it around to feed the RS-422 port but I don’t recall the manufacturer but I do recall it was an expensive solution.
Tony Salgado
-
[walter biscardi] “This is not an Kona issue at all. It’s just that FCP cannot calculate that you are bringing in your media off-speed.”
That’s what I thought. Makes perfect sense. Thanks Walter!
[tony salgado] “Why anyone would want to abuse the transport in the camera (for long term capturing) thereby subjecting the transport additional wear and tear is beyond me?”
I completely agree and I even brought this concern to the camera owner, but he said it was just for this test and nothing else. We’ll be using the 1200A for the project capture.
[tony salgado] “But the real issue lies in the fact that although the timecode is embedded in the HDSDI signal FCP still requires RS 422 control to capture the timecode off tape. One major reason why a studio vtr is required for long term capturing.”
Aha! Thank you! So when we get the deck and run the RS422 control port to it, we’ll be fine. Thanks Tony!
-
[tony salgado] “You missed the part where Athen explained he is using the camera (varicam) as the playback device for capturing.”
Yep I did. Good catch. Never expected someone to use the Varicam for a VTR. But I see that this is just a test. Whew!
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
https://www.biscardicreative.com“I reject your reality and substitute my own!” – Adam Savage, Mythbusters
-
Tony writes –
Why anyone would want to abuse the transport in the camera (for long term capturing) thereby subjecting the transport additional wear and tear is beyond me?REPLY –
I am shocked that Tony is getting just like ME ! THATS RIGHT – are you CRAZY – why would you use an EXPENSIVE camera as a VTR. I had a SIXTY YEAR OLD PRODUCER (after telling him he was crazy for trying to edit from the Sony HDV camera) – tell me “don’t you edit Beta right from the camera ? – Someone with 35 years of experience asking me this – WHERE IS MY GUN ???There is this URGE from the marketplace to get rid of all these AJA, Blackmagic, Aurora, AVID products – all this “facility” equipment – and just edit right from the camera, and use NOTHING ELSE. The day this happens in real life, the world ends – REPENT !
Bob Zelin
-
[Bob Zelin] “I am shocked that Tony is getting just like ME ! THATS RIGHT – are you CRAZY – why would you use an EXPENSIVE camera as a VTR. I had a SIXTY YEAR OLD PRODUCER (after telling him he was crazy for trying to edit from the Sony HDV camera) – tell me “don’t you edit Beta right from the camera ? – Someone with 35 years of experience asking me this – WHERE IS MY GUN ???”
It was a test! I promise! We were testing the Kona3 and VFR footage; nothing long term, no big project, one time only deal. I’m going to tell the DP what kind of guilt trips I’ve been put through for him! ;o)
Thanks again, everyone!
~Athen -
Athen,
You are forgiven as for short test the use of a camcorder is deemed ok.
For long term you already know it is not recommended not only for the wear and tear put on the camcorder transport but because the additional time to search around for clips would drive you insane without the ability to log and capture by timecode.
Tony Salgado
-
[Athenross] “It seems when the card is used to capture media at off-speeds it only records the length of time in the timecode, not the entire tape.”
that would be correct. –why would it capture the entire tape?
[Athenross] “For instance, we recorded off-speed and I captured directly from the camera using capture now; in order to get the whole slo-mo scene, I would have to leave the capture running for an additional minute after the scene was finished. This is because the card brings the media in and converts it to slo-mo on the fly.”
Bob and Tony beat you up on recording from the camera. to capture this content the software ( FCP ) needs to understand the cadence of the VFR data you are recording. with Capture Now ( I told you NOT to use it for this type of capture) there is no way to determine what the next proper frame should be so it will need to roll past the point of ending – just so the software understands where the end point actually is.
[Athenross] “I could not see timecode reading through my Log & Capture window.”
FCP does not see TC over SDI. this is also one reason why capture now does not work correctly with the HDSDI out of the camera directly.gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows
Chicago, IL -
[Athenross] “if we captured it via firewire without the card, this would give us the whole tape and then it could be converted using Panasonic’s FRC plug-in for Final Cut Pro”
Maybe I’m missing something, but don’t you still need to use the FRC plug-in for off-speed Varicam footage, even with Kona3 (just like Kona2)? To my knowledge K3 only works “normally” if it’s a 24fps timebase intended as 24fps. If you are recording 36fps intended to be played at 24fps, you’d still need the FCP plug-in and work only in DVCPRO HD.
Sincerely,
OliverOliver Peters
Post-Production & Interactive Media
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com -
[Oliver Peters] “Maybe I’m missing something, but don’t you still need to use the FRC plug-in for off-speed Varicam footage, even with Kona3 (just like Kona2)? To my knowledge K3 only works “normally” if it’s a 24fps timebase intended as 24fps.”
By using the 720p23.98 Varicam Easy setup = yes you can capture the offspeed content as anything – even 10bit UC direct from the camera on set. The Card will convert the footage correctly according to what it was shot at. – but you are correct that it always plays back as 24p./
and all Kona HD cards can do this.
gary
gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows
Chicago, IL
Reply to this Discussion! Login or Sign Up