KeyFlow Pro

[Robin S. kurz]

[John Davidson] “Big update coming very very soon.”

It’s out as of yesterday. Very nice! It now has (more or less) support for Premiere also, meaning you can in a sense use it as an expensive “XtoCC” (in “Resolve quality”, not the actual XtoCC). 😀 Very smart move.

Absolutely LOVE the fact that you can now keyword clips and set markers in KFP i.e. they are preserved! Though the fact that you have to set an in and out for it to work seems very odd, unless of course I want to explicitly set a keyword range which is also possible.

Those are the first and foremost new features that I caught. Would LOVE to see a decent, real-world and in-depth demo/tutorial of it all, to be sure not to miss anything. Will your demo be online at any point, John?? Because the complete absence of any such infos is a huge bummer, but is key to using it as judiciously and effectively as possible. Something I’m pretty sure I’m not anywhere close to doing yet.

– RK

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[Robin S. kurz]

Okay… just realized that I’m a bit late to the party… damn. Hadn’t seen the other thread yet. Oh well! It’s still a brilliant update! 🙂

Now I just HAVE to figure out the new “server” part of things seeing that it’s (already) part of a 12 seat FCP X edit suite! Really excited.

– RK

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[John Davidson]

Our FCPWorks presentation should be online after NAB. We’re making an effort not to use any footage that we don’t have clearance for so they can post it online.

The server elements are great – now you can keyword tag, annotate, and adjust metadata plus a whole lot of other things. The keyword needs an in/out so that the range can be defined in fcpx tagging. Otherwise you can just add a marker in keyflow and it will go to Premiere or FCPX when you crank out an xml.

What I find to be great about Keyflow is that now your metadata lives on outside of your FCPX library, often in the finder level. No more wasted time tagging the heck out of footage and then just forgetting about it. This is especially useful for shoot media that you might reuse later, but it also applies to things like rampant design elements, 3D model libraries, renders, sound effects, etc.

John Davidson | President / Creative Director | Magic Feather Inc.

[Robin S. kurz]

[John Davidson] “Our FCPWorks presentation should be online after NAB.”

Very cool… keep us posted! 🙂

[John Davidson] “The keyword needs an in/out so that the range can be defined in fcpx tagging.”

Yes, if I want a RANGE based keyword that’s fine. But if I simply want to keyword (not TAG) an ENTIRE clip, having to first set an in and out seems counter intuitive. That needs to reflect the same way it works in X imho.

[John Davidson] “Otherwise you can just add a marker in keyflow and it will go to Premiere or FCPX when you crank out an xml.”

Okay, as far as the XML thing is concerned, that’s another thing. I’m trying to wrap my head around WHY, when I try to simply send an existing (either sent or imported) XML from KFP to either FCP X or even PPro or 7, I’m told I need to “select among the video, audio and images” first?? Which of those are relevant to the selected XML are noted in the XML, no? And even if I do select something, only THE MEDIA that I selected shows up in FCP, not the project from the selected XML. What am I missing?? So can I not send a project from X to KFP and then to 7 or CC as I simply assumed was part of the whole new XML support? What am I missing (or misunderstanding)? I have yet to get AN XML over to Premiere or 7. Sending simple MEDIA is not a problem and yes, markers are preserved, which is very cool. Cheers.

– RK

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[John Davidson]

[Robin S. Kurz] “if I simply want to keyword (not TAG) an ENTIRE clip, having to first set an in and out seems counter intuitive. That needs to reflect the same way it works in X imho.”

Ah, ok, REGULAR keywords are added in the ‘info’ pane, not in the annotation window. ‘Annotation’ is for FCPX keyword range tags
and markers. Adding straight up finder keywords is probably the easiest thing about he whole app. Just type or delete additional tags in the tags window on the the right side of the screen.

[Robin S. Kurz] “‘m trying to wrap my head around WHY, when I try to simply send an existing (either sent or imported) XML from KFP to either FCP X or even PPro or 7, I’m told I need to “select among the video, audio and images” first?”

The XML keyflow generates can only include information about the files and the data you add to them, not projects. Keyflow doesn’t actually create projects for you. It can manage xml’s of projects created by FCPX. Basically, it’s the equivalent of dragging the files onto the FCPX icon.

That help?

John Davidson | President / Creative Director | Magic Feather Inc.

[Robin S. kurz]

[John Davidson] “Ah, ok, REGULAR keywords are added in the ‘info’ pane, not in the annotation window.”

Erm… okay. So you’re saying that “keywords” on entire clips are in fact FINDER tags that then, assuming I remember to select the “Create keywords from Finder tags” option, turn into actual Keywords when imported into FCP? Hmpf… not good. Since that means that with every “Keyword” I create, I’m adding yet another Finder tag to my (already very long) list. Effectively adding up to hundreds if not thousands of Finder tags over time! A no-go imho. Especially since I could essentially make a single keyword for the entire clip (ONLY within FCP and KFP) by hitting i and o at each end… only that is unintuitive and unnecessarily tedious. I’ll definitely have to write them about that.

[John Davidson] “Adding straight up finder keywords is probably the easiest thing about he whole app.”

Which may be great for some, just not me or my workflow. I use Finder tags for entirely different things and would like to keep them separate and not mix them up.

[John Davidson] “Keyflow doesn’t actually create projects for you. It can manage xml’s of projects created by FCPX. Basically, it’s the equivalent of dragging the files onto the FCPX icon.”

Wait… so XMLs within KFP are effectively of no use to me, aside from maybe for archival purposes?? That makes little to no sense to me. I don’t get why selecting “Send to FCP X” on an XML doesn’t simply act as if I double-clicked it in the Finder… which I can’t do, since it’s hidden away in the KFP library. I’d have to reveal first, then… no. And that doesn’t really explain the confusing error message that I get when I try that and which I still don’t know how to interpret either.

Then make it inactive for XMLs? Or at least come up with something more explanatory.

Logically I expect it to open as described. And if I “Send to FCP 7 or CC” for it to convert to legacy XML (e.g. like Resolve or XtoCC, even if not as good), then open either app the same way. *sigh* Clearly got my hopes up too soon.

Oh well. The trials and tribulations of the early adopter I guess! Cheers.

– RK

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[John Davidson]

When you tag something in FCPX, those tags do not affect the file on the finder level. All your work done on that file via FCPX exists only in FCPX. Keyflow lets you tag files for a more permanent searchable solution – just like finder already does (but better).
There is no way you will end up with 1000 tags on a Finder file.

If you want to open any file right click and select ‘open with’, and then select Final Cut Pro X from the list. This is identical to Finder’s right click option for opening a file. No reveal in finder needed.

‘Send to Final Cut Pro X’ CREATES an fcpxml file from the selected files you highlight in keyflow. An fcpxml file is not media, it’s like a document, and those can’t actually be stored ‘in’ an FCPX Library. The error dialogue should say:

‘Keyflow can only send audio, video, and image files as fcpxml.’

I think that it would be pretty magical for it to be able to convert xml files across complex video systems but that’s far beyond what this app is designed to do. I’m covering as much as I can Monday. The complexities of Finder Keyword Tags, FCPX Keyword Tags, Keyflow Tagging, etc – it’s confusing for everyone. I’ll try to help clarify that Monday.

John Davidson | President / Creative Director | Magic Feather Inc.

[Robin S. kurz]

[John Davidson] “those tags do not affect the file on the finder level.”

Sorry, but I respectfully disagree. In fact that’s a feature that Matt Geller explicitly points to in his demos.

Before:

After entering tags in KFP:

[John Davidson] “There is no way you will end up with 1000 tags on a Finder file.”

Okay, poorly worded on my end I guess. I didn’t mean on the file, but rather in the sidebar of my Finder windows where the tags are listed. I would get a new tag in that list for every new one I assign in KFP, potentially resulting in thousands over time, yes. Again, something I personally would not want to happen. Tags are tags, keywords are keywords. And as I said, it’s not like I CAN’T use the keywords as described, it’s just tedious and unnecessary imho to have to set an in and out first if it is to be assigned to the entire clip.

[John Davidson] “An fcpxml file is not media, it’s like a document, and those can’t actually be stored ‘in’ an FCPX Library.”

Once again I’d have to say you’re wrong OR we’re talking about two different things. Because otherwise, what is this?

… and what is it for, if not to save my edit along side the master when sending to KFP? What, in your view, is in the XML that KFP creates (and stores) if not the edit? In fact, if KP DIDN’T save/archive the edit, then I would say it is near useless for me. But… I know that it does. Like I said, I can have it shown in the Finder and double-click that and it opens as it should in FCP X with my project/edit in tact! (only the media is offline for some odd reason) So why not be able to do that directly? It seems to me, that that is the way is was even imagined to work (and imho make the most sense by far), only it doesn’t for some reason.

[John Davidson] “I think that it would be pretty magical for it to be able to convert xml files across complex video systems but that’s far beyond what this app is designed to do.”

But then that’s what both Resolve, XtoCC and others do, no?

[John Davidson] “it’s confusing for everyone.”

I’m not confused about the functionality per se, I’m just very confused over some of the, imho, illogical implementations. Cheers!

– RK

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Deutsch? Hier gibt es ein umfassendes FCP X Training für dich!

[John Davidson]

Robin, please read the first part of that sentence again.

“When you tag something in FCPX, those tags do not affect the file on the finder level.”

See that first part? I’m talking about FCPX. Of course Keyflow add tags to finder. That’s the point of it.

In finder, assign keyword tags to show up in the sidebar of finder preferences.bthats how you keep the list from getting long. The reality is though that Keyflow mostly replaces finder.

I think you’re best served by waiting for the presentation to go online.

John Davidson | President / Creative Director | Magic Feather Inc.

[Robin S. kurz]

[John Davidson] “Robin, please read the first part of that sentence again. “

Ah, sorry. My bad, yes. All the damn acronyms. Getting myself all mixed up. 😉

[John Davidson] “Of course Keyflow add tags to finder. That’s the point of it. “

Yes, I realize that. And that’s not a bad thing per se… if that’s what you want. Only the whole point arose from my saying that one can’t simply keyword an entire clip without the imho (in that case) tedious ins and outs. To which you suggested that that’s what the tag are for. My counter-point simply being that that is a very bad substitute.

[John Davidson] “I think you’re best served by waiting for the presentation to go online.”

I will definitely follow it and let you know. 😉 There are many more aspects of KFP that I’m very curious about and need more infos about. Thanks! Either way, I most definitely think it’s a brilliant, if maybe a bit unpolished here and there (anything but unusual for a v1.5 product of course), and unrivaled app in it’s feature-set and FCP X integration! Obviously I don’t have to even mention the price… 😉

Cheers,
RK

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Deutsch? Hier gibt es ein umfassendes FCP X Training für dich!