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Just Business…
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[Scott Witthaus] “[Oliver Peters] “No offense meant, but doesn’t your post also show your bias for X over Premiere Pro? ”
No offense taken. And my perceived bias is based on my experience with both products and who my students are. I am there to teach my students the craft of visual storytelling. Concept through post. In my mind, X is a superior product for editorial and that is what I teach them. So if that is a bias, then yes, I am biased.”
As you stated, in your mind X is superior. Why not teach Avid, Premiere and FCPX and let the students decide which one they like best? Avid, Premiere and FCPX will all get better and it would not hurt to learn all three. Keep in mind FCPX is not cross platform for both Mac and Windows.
Let us suppose Blackmagic Design released a new program for “free” that is exactly like FCPX but with a few more features and it works on both Mac and PC. Would you tell the school to drop FCP X in favor of the new program from Blackmagic Design? Would you insist the school purchase Macs and PCs?
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[andy patterson] “Why not teach Avid, Premiere and FCPX and let the students decide which one they like best? Avid, Premiere and FCPX will all get better and it would not hurt to learn all three.”
I have 15 weeks a semester so I can’t take the time to teach all three. We have a university site license for Lynda.com (only took me three years to get the university to agree to get that!) and if they want to use Premier, they can learn it there. Not much need for Media Composer unless they are going into broadcast, which I have not had one go that way yet.
I have all three, used all three and still use two of the three. X, for what I do and teach, is superior. So, in the limited time I have with each class, that’s what I teach. No apologies, I just feel this is the best way.
Scott Witthaus
Senior Editor/Post Production Supervisor
1708 Inc./Editorial
Professor, VCU Brandcenter -
[Scott Witthaus] “[andy patterson] “Why not teach Avid, Premiere and FCPX and let the students decide which one they like best? Avid, Premiere and FCPX will all get better and it would not hurt to learn all three.”
I have 15 weeks a semester so I can’t take the time to teach all three. We have a university site license for Lynda.com (only took me three years to get the university to agree to get that!) and if they want to use Premier, they can learn it there. Not much need for Media Composer unless they are going into broadcast, which I have not had one go that way yet.”
You should be able to teach all three unless you are only a part time instructor. In that case you would have do decide if you have the adequate amount of time necessary to fully teach the students properly. At the very least the school should have a trained Premiere Pro and Avid editor. There are some cool things you can do with Premiere and AE that should be taught in class. The students may have questions beyond Lynda.com.
[Scott Witthaus] “I have all three, used all three and still use two of the three. X, for what I do and teach, is superior. So, in the limited time I have with each class, that’s what I teach. No apologies, I just feel this is the best way.”
Your feelings for FCPX are irrelevant. Premiere, Avid and AE are out there. In fact I know of a TV station in Chicago that uses Edius. Oprah Winfrey’s own Harpo productions used to use Edius as well (they still might). I could see only teaching FCPX if FCPX was the only NLE being used in a professionals environment but that is not the case.
Back to my original question. If Blackmagic Design released a new NLE that was free and identical to FCXP with a few more features than FCPX and it worked with OS X and Windows would you tell the school to ditch FCPX for Blackmagic’s new NLE? Would you only teach one NLE or would you maybe find time to teach two NLE? If you continue to only teach one would it be FCPX or the Blackmagic Design software? The answer to those questions is what I really want to know.
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I’ve been lucky enough to teach both Premiere and FCPX at an Adult College.
I try to expose both and give each its merits and failures.
In the end the student gets to decide.
Its still 50/50 from my experience.
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[Eric Santiago] “I’ve been lucky enough to teach both Premiere and FCPX at an Adult College.
I try to expose both and give each its merits and failures.
In the end the student gets to decide.
Its still 50/50 from my experience.”
I agree. I would teach them both if given the chance. In the end teachers need to do what is best for the students as apposed to pushing their biases. I am not a fan of Vegas Video but others like it. Same could be said of Hash’s Animation Master. I wish Fast’s/Pinnacle’s/Avid’s Liquid edition was still around.
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I get where Scott is coming from, because he doesn’t teach aspiring film and TV students. I would do the same. However, teachers that do have to prepare students to go out into the workplace, do have a responsibility to teach the tools that graduates will encounter.
Oliver
Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com -
[andy patterson] “You should be able to teach all three unless you are only a part time instructor. “
9 month contract faculty, so yes, full semesters. I design the curriculum. Teaching concept development and story flow and design is more important, so I teach the best, fastest-learned software to support the storytelling aspect.
[andy patterson] “t the very least the school should have a trained Premiere Pro and Avid editor. “
I have made a lot of money on Avid in my career and still use Premiere today, so that “trained editor” is me. And to support what I mentioned above, X is it.
[andy patterson] “Your feelings for FCPX are irrelevant.”
Well, no. Since I create the curriculum it is very relevant.
[andy patterson] “Premiere, Avid and AE are out there.”
Sigh. See my previous posts. Lynda.com is out there for them.
[andy patterson] “In fact I know of a TV station in Chicago that uses Edius. Oprah Winfrey’s own Harpo productions used to use Edius as well (they still might).”
We are not doing 1:15 news packages or long form broadcast. Note my posts above. Would you say that the Edius station is doing it’s editors a disservice by using such a niche product?
[andy patterson] “I could see only teaching FCPX if FCPX was the only NLE being used in a professionals environment but that is not the case. “
Note my posts above, please. I am not teaching kids to go out and local news or broadcast.
[andy patterson] “The answer to those questions is what I really want to know.”
One more time….I am teaching the craft of visual storytelling not “learn this system(s) so you can get a news gig”. At the end of a project, I want a story based on a strong concept, shot and posted properly. They can use iMovie for all I care. It’s about the end result and less about what tool they use to cut it. To assist my students to get to that result, I teach X. I have always said that I can teach ANYBODY how to operate a software. Talented storytellers are not that easy to find. I am trying to get technology out of the way of the storytelling process.
Scott Witthaus
Senior Editor/Post Production Supervisor
1708 Inc./Editorial
Professor, VCU Brandcenter -
[andy patterson] “I agree. I would teach them both if given the chance. In the end teachers need to do what is best for the students as apposed to pushing their biases.”
I think there is a lack of understanding of education in many of these posts. It’s easy to say, “You should teach all three so students are prepared.”
But the problem with that is, you are sacrificing a lot of your limited time getting into idiosyncratic details of how different editing systems work instead of teaching the craft of editing. If FCP X allows you to get to the craft quicker, then that’s what it should be. There is a lot of thought that has to go into curriculum development. If one of the students really excels with FCP X and decides to make a career of editing, I have no doubt they will easily be able to switch to another editing program as the need arises. They will be richer for having spent more time thinking about the craft of editing.
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Brett Sherman
One Man Band (If it\’s video related I\’ll do it!)
I work for an institution that probably does not want to be associated with my babblings here. -
[Brett Sherman] “But the problem with that is, you are sacrificing a lot of your limited time getting into idiosyncratic details of how different editing systems work instead of teaching the craft of editing. If FCP X allows you to get to the craft quicker, then that’s what it should be. There is a lot of thought that has to go into curriculum development. If one of the students really excels with FCP X and decides to make a career of editing, I have no doubt they will easily be able to switch to another editing program as the need arises. They will be richer for having spent more time thinking about the craft of editing.”
Could not have said it any better.
Scott Witthaus
Senior Editor/Post Production Supervisor
1708 Inc./Editorial
Professor, VCU Brandcenter -
[Brett Sherman] “But the problem with that is, you are sacrificing a lot of your limited time getting into idiosyncratic details of how different editing systems work instead of teaching the craft of editing. If FCP X allows you to get to the craft quicker, then that’s what it should be. There is a lot of thought that has to go into curriculum development. If one of the students really excels with FCP X and decides to make a career of editing, I have no doubt they will easily be able to switch to another editing program as the need arises. They will be richer for having spent more time thinking about the craft of editing.”
One thing to consider is FCPX is not cross platform for Mac and PC. Other programs are. I do admit FCPX for $300.00 is a good deal for Apple users but what about everyone else? That is kind of my point.
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