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It’s not about the gap. Can we edit with the magnetic timeline?
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[Herb Sevush] “What did they risk? Certainly not money, Pro Apps is chump change at Apple. “
Are you sure about this? What sells iPhones? Arguably, iTunes and all that comes with it. What sells MacPros?
How many mac computers do you own? I am sure that Apple wouldn’t want us to take our business elsewhere with all the Apple shwag we have here. FCP is the catalyst to all that. So yes, perhaps the software is a blip on the accounting ledger, but it is not cut and dry, either, and might be hard to measure.
[Herb Sevush] “When they EOL’d FCP without warning they put my business at risk, but I don’t think they cared too much about that.”
I have a question for you as I am very interested to hear about this. Saying Apple put your business at risk is a pretty big claim. I am just wondering how Apple put your business at risk? I can think of a few reasons, but I wanted to hear from you. Since they put FCS3 back on that market is that less of a risk? I think I remember you were a Discreet Edit guy, is that right? Apologies if I am wrong about that. If you were, was your business at risk when that went down?
Jeremy
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[Mark Morache] “That’s exactly what I’m talking about. Perhaps they can give us a way to lock the primary so pressing I and O will default to the next storyline up. I don’t understand why selecting the secondary storyline, won’t let me use my keyboard to set the edit points. “
I just think it needs to have more control built in. You set an i and an o and it marks the whole timeline. You can then hit a key command to “target” the layer you want to edit/replace/overwrite/insert/whatever. That would keep the tracklessness, just give more control of the layers. It would also make things faster with connected clips without so much click and drag. It would allow direct editing from the browser to the timeline, bringing track like control, with no tracks.
[Mark Morache] “When we have secondary storylines or connected clips, we effectively have tracks. “
I see them as layers, not tracks. They aren’t tracks, they don’t operate like tracks, but they do give you visual organization like a track, but it’s not persistent across the timeline, like a track. Perhaps they are mini tracks.
[Mark Morache] “And I’m not just talking as an old editor who thinks the old way is always better. I’m just the opposite. I love new things. I love new ways of working and thinking.”
I hear you and I’m with you. And as much conversation that has happened about throwing all clips in a timeline and editing it down (starting with a mess, ending with a finished piece), this is exactly what is happening with FCPX. Throw it all in a pile, and develop new ways to do things, you have to first start with a mess. User feedback will be crucial to making this better.
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“Are you sure about this? What sells iPhones? Arguably, iTunes and all that comes with it. What sells MacPros?”
First of all I’m not sure about anything, least of all Apple’s intentions. This is all conjecture, at least on my part. Just like Aindreas I might be willing to kill a fury little kitten to find out what really was going on at Cupertino.
https://forums.creativecow.net/readpost/335/16800“What sells MacPros?”
FCP Studio, but Apple dosn’t make that anymore. The conjecture is that MacPros are next up on the chopping block. FCPx seems aimed at the Icrowd of computers.
“I think I remember you were a Discreet Edit guy, is that right? Apologies if I am wrong about that. If you were, was your business at risk when that went down?”
Absolutely. The financial investment in edit* was much larger, the misrepresentations by Discreet management much greater – I will never use a discreet product. Ever.
“Saying Apple put your business at risk is a pretty big claim. I am just wondering how Apple put your business at risk? I can think of a few reasons, but I wanted to hear from you. Since they put FCS3 back on that market is that less of a risk?”
After the debacle with Discreet I chose FCP in large part out of the desire for stability. I am often prone to what my X wife once described as the “esoteric imperative.” The search for the best way to do something, which I often find to be in conflict with the most popular way. *edit wasn’t my first EOL, just the most egregious. Building my studio around FCP seemed the most solid stable way to go. Other than it’s multi-cam feature, which is first rate, I have never been wildly enamored with FC. But like the older but wiser woman, this time around I was going for the safe bet, I was done with looking for Romeo. So to have the company suddenly EOL my entire workflow, unannounced, leaving me with no way to migrate my older projects, no appropriate replacement tool for my workflow, no way to expand my current business, with huge uncertainty about how long I can maintain my current workflow as I am frozen in time as the video work environment is changing all around me; and with retraining costs and new unexpected equipment costs needed to help me adapt – yes I think my business is more “at risk” than before. I could more easily accept it if Apple had simply failed as a company – but to be tossed out because I no longer fit their market profile, ay, that’s where the canker gnaws.
AS to the effect of FCS3 being back on the market, that was a helpful step. Of course I am then stuck with trying to understand why it was ever taken off the market in the first place, but then that brings me back to Aindreas’s kitten.
Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions -
Awesome. Thanks, Herb.
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Interesting comments below, in regard to Apple’s enterprise plans.
“The “Lion” Server may be the last version of the Mac OS X Server that matters, but if that’s the case, it’s going out with a roar. It’s a solid operating system that was designed for ease of use and lives up to that goal. What other goals Apple may have for the Lion Server aren’t easily described.Since Apple’s exit from the enterprise server market at the beginning of the year, the company has tried to position its Mac Mini and Mac Pro server-ish configurations as replacements for the rack-mounted Xserve. But if Apple has plans to expand its server business, it’s doing a good job of disguising them. The operating system’s management tools are a confusing mix of legacy tools and new utilities that unnecessarily overlap in many places. It’s hard to recommend Lion Server to anyone except the most fanatical of Mac loyalists. Consumer king Apple could care less about its server customers, and I suspect that the company could walk away from that line of business in a year and only suffer minimal backlash from users.”“As it is, the lack of meaningful information suggests that the Lion Server may have been dumbed down past the point of no return.”
https://www.eweek.com/c/a/IT-Infrastructure/Apples-Latest-and-Last-Enterprise-OS-Falls-Flat-276260/
https://www.eweek.com/c/a/Apple/Lion-Server-Falls-Short-671492/
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I don’t think Apple ever tried very hard in the enterprise space, would be no great surprise if they stopped trying altogether.
“My Name is Steve and I’m an FCPX user”
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Mark,
I really do admire your staying power to keep trying to make it work even though you see so many difficulties.
One question, and this is not a snipe but true interest, why do you stick with FCPx and not go to Premiere or Avid?
Best
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“Acceptable editing!?!?” That term kind of scares me and makes me shy away from the magnetic timeline even more.
Sure I’ve dealt with other folks edits…and sometimes it is maddening (mainly because their style of editing is totally different from mine). I have had to fix bunged up audio that runs too hot (mainly because they are gauging it by how it sounds on youtube or some such) or has a bunch of pops and clicks because they don’t understand audio needs to fade in and out at the beginning and end of each clip.
Still, I would rather put up with that than deal with a paradigm that forces folks into only one style of editing. And that is my biggest fear with the magnetic timeline. I wouldn’t have so much of a problem with it if it were a choice instead of the only option.
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[Carsten Orlt] “One question, and this is not a snipe but true interest, why do you stick with FCPx and not go to Premiere or Avid?”
I’ve done Avid. It’s always felt to me like I was driving the family van. It’s stable but I’m not excited about going back.
I recently purchased Adobe CS 5.5, and I want to learn Premiere. I’m not anxious to start climbing another learning curve right away.
FCX just has so much freakin’ potential. There are times editing FCX where I felt excited about what my fingers were doing. I posted this thread primarily to see what others thought about the magnetic timeline, because for me it’s the toughest thing to get my head around.
As an editor, I can go from FCP7 to Avid to Premiere, and for the most part the strategies for editing will remain the same.
FCX changes all of that. It’s not just about learning where they put the trim buttons, it’s mind-numbingly different. The question is will they be able to mature it into something truly phenomenal, or will it always remain a sub-par intellectual exercise in reforming the editing paradigm. And when I say “sub-par” I’m not speaking of a failure, but something that’s just not quite all-there.
Can they perfect this paradigm, or by it’s nature will it always lead to a dead end?
I don’t have the investment that many do on this board. I work for a local broadcast, and do shooting and editing on the side. Presently, my editing outfit is a single MBP 17″ that I use for everything. I can do things for my paid job on FCPX that I can’t do on our system at work.
I’m afraid that I’ll commit a project to FCPX and somehow it will fail me close to my deadline, and I’ll be sunk. I’m keeping a copy of my media on an extra drive in case it gets modified and goes offline. I’m duplicating my projects every 30-60 minutes without copying the render files so I have a backup.
I honestly believe that Apple will continue to try to make this the photoshop of NLEs. Just like the evolution from FCP1 to FCP7, we will see this new thing grow and improve. If the magnetic timeline becomes the sandy foundation that ultimately causes this thing to crumble, I’ll be sad. It might be like trying to make a Thanksgiving dinner with tofurkey. It will never quite taste like turkey. Ever.
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FCX. She tempts me, abuses me, beats me up, makes me feel worthless, then in the end she comes around, helps me get my work done, gives me hope and I can’t stop thinking about her.Mark Morache
Avid/Xpri/FCP7/FCX
Evening Magazine,Seattle, WA
https://fcpx.wordpress.com -
I am kind of in the same boat as you, but went in the opposite direction. I don’t make my living editing, but use it for “art” projects and sometimes to supplement my income. I went the Adobe route just because the discount price was too good. I don’t have tons of cash to sink into my editing station.
I do see some promise with FCPX, but decided to go with something that will at least be viable for the immediate future (and let me import old FCP7 projects). I have had only passing contact with FCPX but do see the potential for greatness in the future (though I hope they allow more customization of the work space lickety split).
I will probably purchase it in the future, but will await for one or maybe two upgrades. I do want to play with it, but can’t justify the $399 price tag for something that only has limited use for me at present. I enjoyed your thread. It helped me to stick with my decision to move towards Premiere for the near future, but also gave me hope that maybe someday, FCPX will fit my workflow.
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