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It’s not about the gap. Can we edit with the magnetic timeline?
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“Couldn’t disagree more! I congratulate whoever was responsible at Apple to have the guts to risk everything for what they believe in.”
What did they risk? Certainly not money, Pro Apps is chump change at Apple. When they EOL’d FCP without warning they put my business at risk, but I don’t think they cared too much about that.
“And they sure thought very hard about this. Why do you think it took so long to release a software that has quite a few things missing?”
Maybe it takes a long time to invent a 5 sided wheel. Maybe they’re a bunch of incompetent drug addled coders. Maybe they’re clairvoyant visionaries. Obviously neither you nor I know the answer, you’re just assuming you do.
“Having tracks is something editors have to struggle with everyday”Speak for yourself, I don’t work with any editor who struggles with tracks once a year, let alone once a day.
“All NLE’s before FCPx are basically software forms of a 2 VTR edit suite. That’s why you have tracks, why you have 2 monitors for source and recorder”
As has been mentioned elsewhere some NLE’s have only had 1 viewer long before FCPx. Most have 2 because it’s better. I never saw a timeline on a CMX. There was no such thing as multiple video tracks in an on-line suite. It is as accurate to say that an NLE is an analog of a Kem flatbed with 2 monitors. Your statement has a nice ring to it but is totally without basis in fact.
“So simple decision for everybody. If you want tracks: go somewhere else.”
Many are, in droves.
Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions -
[David Lawrence] “[Carsten Orlt] “Having tracks is something editors have to struggle with everyday because all tracks have to do everything at once. ”
I don’t know what you’re talking about. I’ve never struggled with tracks. Understanding tracks is part of my job.”
You’re right. Struggle was the wrong word and too harsh. ‘To deal with’ would have been the better term.
[David Lawrence] “Again, I’ve never had any difficulty. It’s easy once you learn. Knowing how to do this is part of my job.”
Fair enough. But you could use this argument as well to defend FCPx 🙂
[David Lawrence] “how long do you think it will take to become an industry standard? Will DAW venders begin using a trackless approach to match Apple’s? Will Logic X be trackless?”
Honestly I do not know. I do not think that necessarily it should be the standard either. It is just something that appeals to me. And I think editors can benefit from it. Of course I think this because I like it. If it doesn’t work for you that’s ok. Luckily there are different options. That Apple made the decision to go in a direction that doesn’t work for you may be a hassle for you and I understand if people are frustrated. But I do not agree with the assumption that trackless is bad. In regard to DAW I can’t answer that question because I do not know what sound editors require. I do know what I require as a picture editor to edit my audio, and I do not need tracks.
Cheers
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[Herb Sevush] “What did they risk?”
To be the laughing stock of an entire industry and being hated by most editors who are using FCP 🙂
[Herb Sevush] “Maybe they’re a bunch of incompetent drug addled coders. Maybe they’re clairvoyant visionaries. Obviously neither you nor I know the answer, you’re just assuming you do.”
True. I should written that it is the only explanation that makes sense to me personally. If they wouldn’t be interested in the pro market anymore that wouldn’t have done the things they did as eg. presenting it at NAB or saying that broadcast monitoring will come. Would have been way cheaper just to change the website and put it on the App store without another word. Or better not to have it at all. just keep iMovie and do the usual touch ups to it. But yes you’re right, who knows 🙂
[Herb Sevush] “Speak for yourself, I don’t work with any editor who struggles with tracks once a year, let alone once a day.”
As written to David: ‘To deal with’ would have been the better expression. Apologies.
[Herb Sevush] “Your statement has a nice ring to it but is totally without basis in fact.”
Neither can you prove that it is not. Let’s agree to disagree as I still think that Avid had VTR’s and not flatbed in mind when they started the whole 2 monitor and track approach. Sure you have more tracks in software and other details but I always saw it like this. Again I should have made a disclaimer that this is my opinion. My bad
[Herb Sevush] “Many are, in droves.”
And I honestly hope that they will find the software that best suites them. Nothing worse to work with something you hate.
Herb, all I’m trying to say is that there are other opinions to what is a good or better way to work. I struggled a lot with FCPx when I first saw it and was very nervous as to what my future NLE would be as I really liked FCP legacy. But after reading a lot and editing with it, I start to understand (or at least I think I do) why they did what they did. And I see the benefits. And specially the long term benefits. Lets see.
Cheers
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[Carsten Orlt] “Having tracks is something editors have to struggle with everyday because all tracks have to do everything at once.”
I honestly don’t know what you mean by having to do everything at once. And I would not say that I struggle with tracks. I sometimes get annoyed with the need to patch the source tracks with the destination tracks because the buttons are so small but I don’t struggle at all. Tracks are easy to understand. They give me the three things I need to do my job. They give me information about what I’ve got in the timeline, they give me control to make the edits and changes I need, and they provide the power to turn all of these boxes and lines into the final magic that people will watch.
[Carsten Orlt] “but you can’t change the basic idea behind it because that would mean you’re back to tracks.”
That was my point to this thread. Is there a way to make this work? I’m not convinced that the things I could do so easily in FCP7, like drop audio cross fades on my b-roll shots can work in FCX. I’m not convinced that forcing us to select one thing as the primary storyline will make things easier in the longrun, when often our edit decisions are based on things that are happening in more than just one track at one moment.
The truth is that this interface isn’t entirely trackless. There are multiple tracks. They just show up when they’re needed, and I’m not sure that makes things easier in the longrun. Yes, I’m not patching my source and destination tracks over and over, but organizing the media on tracks is not a struggle, and has always given me powerful control over my edit.
My bottom line is that I’m not finding this faster. Some things are faster, and some things take much longer. If Apple came up with a way of applying audio fades to multiple clips I’d be one step closer to loving this. Not just the fades, because I can copy and paste that, but the audio would need to be extended a few frames beyond the video edit, before the fade is applied in order to overlap the audio.
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FCX. She tempts me, abuses me, beats me up, makes me feel worthless, then in the end she comes around, helps me get my work done, gives me hope and I can’t stop thinking about her.Mark Morache
Avid/Xpri/FCP7/FCX
Evening Magazine,Seattle, WA
https://fcpx.wordpress.com -
[Lance Moody] “choosing what is the primary storyline is really not that important a decision. I doesn’t matter that much…you can switch stuff in and out of the primary”
That’s partially true. I’ve found that dragging things in and out of the primary and flipping things around can leave residual issues, so I don’t always do it without careful thinking, because it matters what you put in the primary storyline. Trimming and editing can be easier or more difficult depending on where you put things.
I’m not giving up on this. I like the good part of this too much. I’m glad you like it, but I’m still finding myself doing lots of clicking to get to my finished product. I hope they can fix that.
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FCX. She tempts me, abuses me, beats me up, makes me feel worthless, then in the end she comes around, helps me get my work done, gives me hope and I can’t stop thinking about her.Mark Morache
Avid/Xpri/FCP7/FCX
Evening Magazine,Seattle, WA
https://fcpx.wordpress.com -
[Jeremy Garchow] “I tell you what I miss about in and out, is that it seems pretty locked to the primary.”
That’s exactly what I’m talking about. Perhaps they can give us a way to lock the primary so pressing I and O will default to the next storyline up. I don’t understand why selecting the secondary storyline, won’t let me use my keyboard to set the edit points.
[Jeremy Garchow] “Secondary storylines give you control of defining a horizontal relationship without a track. In a trackless world, you need them,”
Yes I understand that. I’m still not convinced that this is preferable to the legacy method of using tracks, because it’s not entirely a trackless world. When we have secondary storylines or connected clips, we effectively have tracks. Does it make it better if the pop in and out instead of staying constant? Maybe not. We gain freedom when we lose the need to patch the source and destination, and the apps avoiding of clip collisions. We lose something as well. And I’m not just talking as an old editor who thinks the old way is always better. I’m just the opposite. I love new things. I love new ways of working and thinking.
Right now, swapping tracks for magnetic feels to me like it may never be more than an even trade, and even worse, it might be an irreparable loss.
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FCX. She tempts me, abuses me, beats me up, makes me feel worthless, then in the end she comes around, helps me get my work done, gives me hope and I can’t stop thinking about her.Mark Morache
Avid/Xpri/FCP7/FCX
Evening Magazine,Seattle, WA
https://fcpx.wordpress.com -
[Gerald Baria] ” I see a lot of people here having the habit of dumping everything in the timeline and making choices from there, creating the story “as they move along”, and I think thats a very messy disorganized way to work.”
I love to try to adapt the way I work with the project. Our shop has different photographers who shoot things different ways. I love that. Our editors likewise all have their different ways of working. I would never think of trying to make another editor work like me.
There are times when I feel like the best thing to do is to just dump everything in the timeline and get messy. I find wonderful happy surprises that way. You should try it sometime.
It’s why I’m thinking the magnetic timeline is an interesting, but flawed paradigm. I’m going to continue to try strategies to make it work for me, but as long as I continue to feel like I’m working for it, I’m not going to be happy.
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FCX. She tempts me, abuses me, beats me up, makes me feel worthless, then in the end she comes around, helps me get my work done, gives me hope and I can’t stop thinking about her.Mark Morache
Avid/Xpri/FCP7/FCX
Evening Magazine,Seattle, WA
https://fcpx.wordpress.com -
We need an “add fixed storyline” option, I can’t believe this would be difficult to do and it would do two things, it would effectively disable the magnetic timeline as secondary story lines do not default to ripple and it would also give you virtual tracks
You could then assign “roles” to these fixed storylines which would function as output patching.
“My Name is Steve and I’m an FCPX user”
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I have no problem with you or anyone else liking X, I’m sure it will fit many editors needs. I do get a little feisty with hyperbolic claims for Apple. Sorry if I was a little harsh.
Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions -
I am not sure if I have magnetism to the magnetic timeline!
There are advantages and disadvantages, less time patching thats for sure, more time in the metadata and no IN/OUT across the timeline for ripple deletes etc
also I think for audio it is very confusing at times to not have tracks
what I really think the magnetic timeline will bring along with the improved media management is the ability to be confident you are getting a tidier project from offline to online
has anyone been involved working from other editors edits?
how much of your day is spent checking clip and sequence settings in FCP7 and collapsing redundant tracks so you can finish the piece more easily?
I for one would say thats reason enough for magnetic timeline, no more messing around with other folks misunderstanding of what editing is acceptable.
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