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It’s All Connected — Clip Relationships and The Magnetic Timeline Paradigm
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stupid question:
so in the context we’re talking about, that would mean that v1 could contain multiple layers, and instead of a collision, we get clip layering within the one track?
https://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics
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“once the clip is broken apart or audio is detached. The only relationship is the clip connecting point. So it’s easy to move it out of sync ”
I agree with you, and I don’t like that part of it, but knowing that I just don’t do it very often.
The majority of the time with an interview or b-roll I don’t have a need to detach the audio.
The over all time I’m saving outweighs the problem. For me.
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[tony west] “The over all time I’m saving outweighs the problem. For me.”
For me too.
Steve Connor
‘It’s just my opinion, with an occasional fact thrown in for good measure” -
[Oliver Peters] “The connecting points are not always at the desired place to start with. They are connected based on X’s rules. This means the editor often has to manage the connecting points first before moving clips around on the timeline.”
Some time they are and sometime they are not and when they are not I still find it easy to adjust, because I’m only moving one item instead of maybe 3 (being video track and 2 audio tracks)
That’s where the “streamlined” timeline comes in handy.
I want to build the story first. I’m not that concerned with the audio of a certain clip just yet because I’m not even sure that clip is going to stay there.
Once I have it all laid out in the order I want, then I come back and start tweaking audio.
In that first stage of just getting things in the storyline in the order I want to tell the story with the pacing I want, that’ when X shines to me.
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It’s funny, but that’s immediately what I thought the answer to collisions should be when I saw the very first demo of X over a year ago. Especially for audio. You can keep the organization, but not destroy the audio. Each track can actually a/b tracks. Simple as that. Perhaps before going to pro tools you’d have to address the overlays. But essentially, audio tracks have always been able to handle two tracks at once while doing a dissolve.
But what it doesn’t address is the visual clutter X was trying to resolve. Never having 20 empty tracks with something on track 21 just because you have a huge stack of tracks for one effect. But I’ve found that kind of thing happens anyway. There just isn’t any actual tracks, but there can be a lot of space between a primary and secondary if there were a lot of layers early on, and the secondary had to dissolve in above the layers, and the secondary was very long. In both apps you can always nest, but in both apps that’s usually a hinderance to editing to audio unless you know a section is locked in. And in a complex edit breaking apart compound clips usally breaks apart some function or feature you had built.
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Slippery slope. What happens to other clips that are already on 3 and 4 when 1 and 2 get bumped out of the way to 3 &4? The only way this would really work is if tracks were inserted. But doesn’t that cause even more organizational problems or just as many?
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4 or 5 very different project in and I have yet to detach audio. I’m sure there would be a reason, but I can’t find it yet.
In legacy I would usually leave the audio in and turn off layers I didn’t need. But that left a lot of possibilities open to user error. Accidentally turning clips back on for one. Plus it added quite a lot of clutter. If another editor took over it wouldn’t be completely apparent if I did it by mistake or accident.
In X, I like turning off tracks in the inspector. It’s invisible and nobody else will likely turn them back on. But the downside is it’s invisible and someone might not realize there’s another option later. Including myself.
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Sometimes you can’t even connect a clip to something else without adjusting the connected clip itself. That’s just ridiculous.
For example, I recently had a pretty layered edit with lots of little tiny sound fx added. Sometime multiple sfx connected to a single clip.
Then, I realize I need to slip a clip. The clip just needs a little adjustment, but the sfx need to stay right where they are. Theyre just nat of a restaurant or a gas station or something. Well, if I slip the clip a few seconds, my sfx now have slid 2 seconds down. Perhaps they’re now under a totally different shot. When this happens the only option is to move the clip out of the primary and connect the sfx to a slug, then adjust, the replace the clip in the primary. Which doesn’t always work that easily. Simpler is to just connect it to another clip, but if the only clip above the audio is the clip being adjusted you’re SOL unless you can drag out the clip (destroying an edit choice) long enough to connect it to another.
Too many workarounds. In the above example, simply slipping with a modifier like option would be a good answer. Or even better, the default should be that it takes a modifier key to have the connected clip move with the slipping.
But I understand why it happens the way it does. Connections aren’t just to a clip. They are to a specific FRAME of a clip which you can specify.
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[Bret Williams] “But what it doesn’t address is the visual clutter X was trying to resolve.”
And X solved that? To me, the X timeline is considerably more visually cluttered than any other NLE. Lots of wasted blank space and little logical control over clip height.
– Oliver
Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com -
[Bret Williams] “Then, I realize I need to slip a clip. The clip just needs a little adjustment, but the sfx need to stay right where they are. Theyre just nat of a restaurant or a gas station or something. Well, if I slip the clip a few seconds, my sfx now have slid 2 seconds down. Perhaps they’re now under a totally different shot. When this happens the only option is to move the clip out of the primary and connect the sfx to a slug, then adjust, the replace the clip in the primary.”
Exactly. These things make learning unnecessary workarounds completely counter-intuitive.
[Bret Williams] ” In the above example, simply slipping with a modifier like option would be a good answer. Or even better, the default should be that it takes a modifier key to have the connected clip move with the slipping”
Good idea.
[Bret Williams] “Connections aren’t just to a clip.”
True. Another issue is the arbitrary vertical re-arrangement of clips when you make “horizontal” changes. This often alters the order of composited clips. The default should be to move all up to make space, not re-arrange to collapse the space.
As far as audio tracks, one solution to collisions is what Soundtrack Pro does. When you side one clip into another on the same track, STP automatically creates a crossfade equal in duration to the amount of overlap.
– Oliver
Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com
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