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It’s All Connected — Clip Relationships and The Magnetic Timeline Paradigm
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Oh. Infinite thinness. Yes. I remember that from Physics class.
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[Jeremy Garchow] “Until you hit a totally rediculous collision error. Back to nipping and tucking until it allows you to move where you want. “
True, it’s a pain but I rarely run into this.
[Jeremy Garchow] “Again, I bow. I simply don’t see it this way at all. “
vive la différence!
[Jeremy Garchow] “The problem was that the position tool wouldn’t leave a gap when dragging a gap. Now it does.”
Yes. That was the bug (awesome QA testing). Glad it’s fixed.
[Jeremy Garchow] “Your example would look completely different if you used 10.0.5. “
I never bothered installing 10.0.5 because by then, I had replaced my internal HD for a larger one and built a very streamline system (only FCP7, none of the other studio 3 applications, and Adobe Production Premium) Maybe I’ll put the old drive in the dock and give it a try. I’d be curious to see how it works now.
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David Lawrence
art~media~design~research
propaganda.com
publicmattersgroup.com
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[David Lawrence] “[Jeremy Garchow] “How could you attach to a cut when there are only frames to attach to. A cut isn’t an entity, it’s simply a frame from a different clip, or from a different point in time on the same clip.”
A cut is an infinitely thin slice of time between frames “
“Cut” is an abstraction. It doesn’t exist per se, but only in function of a clip that finish and another that starts. When you cover a cut you may be covering part of the two clips or just part of the incoming clip, but you can never cover only the cut. Its exists only in our head.
rafael -
[Jeremy Garchow] “You yourself says FCPX is the best there is for a/b.”
Having not worked with it, I would never make such a claim. You’re probably thinking of this quote:
[Franz] From what I’ve read, it seems X is probably quite good and maybe the best A/B model NLE there is.
[Jeremy Garchow] “Walter and I had a discussion about a/b earlier today.
David Lawrence mentioned it. Aindreas has alluded to it.
It has come up over the year more than twice.”
Discussing, mentioning, and alluding to A/B models is not the same thing as claiming this:
[Jeremy Garchow] “Why is FCPX an a/b editor only? I don’t understand this recurring comment.”
My point stands. No one, anywhere, as far as I can tell, has ever claimed that FCPX is an A/B editor only.
There is much discussion (and some agreement, including from FCPX editors) that FCPX seems designed with an A/B model in mind. That is not claiming you can only edit using an A/B model.
[Jeremy Garchow] “Then you said we shouldn’t think in terms of a/b”
You may be thinking of this passage:
[Franz] In general I avoid thinking about things in terms of A/B roll, and I proselytize against it, as I think it promotes a certain preconception of how to use shots. When given the opportunity, I actually urge directors specifically not to shoot B roll. Bring me A roll only.
However, you’ll note that unless you’re working with me as an editor, or you’re a director that’s asked me for shooting advice, this doesn’t apply to you.
There are many here who use A/B approaches with great success in their work. My theory of editing is likely not of interest to them. However, it may be of interest to Walter, for example, who was asking for examples of other conceptual models.
If you’re going to put words in people’s mouths, it tends to curb discussion, rather than promote it. Straw-man rhetoric is not used to further discussion.
I’ve not used Media 100, but I’d be interested to know more about its editing model.
For me the simple language (and mechanics) of “primary” and “secondary” in FCPX reveal an underlying A/B assumption. Probably not much would be lost in substituting “primary/secondary” for all instances of “A/B” in this discussion.
Franz.
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[Franz Bieberkopf] “In general I avoid thinking about things in terms of A/B roll, and I proselytize against it, as I think it promotes a certain preconception of how to use shots. When given the opportunity, I actually urge directors specifically not to shoot B roll. Bring me A roll only. Every shot as important as the next. I don’t want to be cutting “away” to anything … only cutting to the next important thing.”
Very interesting perspective!
Before I moved to motion design, I was primarily editing unscripted, interview-driven corporate pieces. Although I would always try to use B-roll that advanced the story, whether it was to visualize a point or cover a cut, very often the use of B-roll was dictated by what was happening in the A-roll (interview). The B-roll was dependent on the A-roll for context and relevance, so it fits the FCPX model neatly.
[Franz Bieberkopf] “It seems to me that if the focus or driving element is constantly shifting, or if your constantly talking about only primaries, or more than one primary, then you’re not really talking about an A/B model anymore.”
It sounds like FCPX would not be a good conceptual fit for this kind of work. I think that some jobs will be inherently easier in FCPX, and others inherently easier in a traditional timeline.
But again, I’d have to leave this part of the discussion for someone actually doing it.
Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog – What I’m thinking when my workstation’s thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events -
[Walter Soyka] “It sounds like FCPX would not be a good conceptual fit for this kind of work. I think that some jobs will be inherently easier in FCPX, and others inherently easier in a traditional timeline. But again, I’d have to leave this part of the discussion for someone actually doing it.”
Replying to myself to pre-empt an argument with Jeremy — I am not saying there are edits you CAN’T make in FCPX, just that the different models/toolset have relative strengths in different kinds of edits.
Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog – What I’m thinking when my workstation’s thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events -
[Franz Bieberkopf] “I’ve not used Media 100, but I’d be interested to know more about its editing model.”
If I recall correctly, it literally had A and B sub-tracks, mixed into a single video track. Video transitions were accomplished by checkerboarding and overlapping A and B within V1. This is the 1 M/E model I referred to earlier.
It’s A/B editing in terms of engineering, not conceptual footage hierarchy. I think that we have horribly confused the situation by using A/B now in a way that’s inconsistent with the historical use of A/B in NLEs.
Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog – What I’m thinking when my workstation’s thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events -
Jeremy,
I’d be interested to hear a response from you (about X) to this statement from Walter:
[Walter Soyka] “Speaking for myself, I don’t see it as A/B in the sense of a two-source, single M/E system. I see it as A/B in terms of the ENG or storytelling mental editorial model — you have A-roll which is primary to the story, and B-roll which is secondary to the story (and attached to the A-roll).
The thing I still don’t quite understand are real-world scenarios where you can’t think of an edit this way.”
In other words, if you don’t conceive of your edit as A/B, how do you conceive of it? How does X help you with this (in ways that tracked models don’t)?
Franz.
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[Walter Soyka] “I think that we have horribly confused the situation by using A/B now in a way that’s inconsistent with the historical use of A/B in NLEs.”
… not to mention film negative.
Franz.
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[Walter Soyka] “It sounds like FCPX would not be a good conceptual fit for this kind of work.”
Walter,
It’s one of the reasons I’ve been shy of trying X to date.
On the other hand, David Lawrence‘s multiple primaries seem like an exciting idea to me …
Franz.
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