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isis 5000
Hello, anyone have experience or heard anything about using ISIS for shared storage with FCP?
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18 Replies
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5000 or 7000? We had an opportunity to test Final Cut with a 5000 for a short period, and without MC5 it basically becomes a volume-level locking SAN. There’s no project sharing like you have with Media Composer, and also a 50 MB/s quality of service limitation that seems to be in place to ensure minimum use-able bandwidth to each client.
After talking with some Avid techs, we had heard there may be a workaround, but we never made it that far. Another thing to be aware of is a maximum file-count limitation (10 million, I think), that may seem like a lot, but I know a lot of Avid admins that spend a fair amount of time culling files to stay under it. The file count does not go up if you add additional storage. Again though, this is just my brief experience with one.
If you’ve got a couple editors running MC5, a 5000 can be a great all-in-one solution to get them sharing, though. If using FCP, it may be good to look at an SNS Evo, Editshare, or Facilis.
If you are looking at connecting FCP users to a 7000, while I believe its do-able, it might be better to look at getting your FCP users on an Xsan and then using re-sharing or some sort intermediate NAS to pass files back and forth.
JM
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Shared storage with ISIS 5000 is good – it works. It is not volume level locking, it is file level locking. Provided you have write privileges, users can R/W all day long to the same workspace.
With a single 1GB pipe toa client station, we are getting speeds exceeding 100MB/s. Once you start adding on users, or not using supported configs, this drops. The correct NIC on a PC is paramount (onboard doesn’t cut it). You can also do a bonded 1GB, and we have seen speeds around 180MB/s. On each chassis, you can expect “around” 300MB/s total.
FCP has no inherent ability for project sharing (read: simultaneous, like Avid). Thus, ISIS500 does not add that. The Editshare SAN solution has the ability to work around this.
Expect a 15-30% performance (throughput) hit with FCP on Unity, and about the same (if not less) on an ISIS.
Also expect a several hundred thousand dollar difference between ISIS 5000 and ISIS 7000. 7000 is enterprise.
~Michael
.: michael kammes mpse
.: senior applications editor . post workflow consultant
.: audio specialist . act fcp . acsr
.: michaelkammes.comHear me pontificate: Speaking Schedule .
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I apologize, we were testing on a Unity MediaNet via fibre channel. So my comments apply to that, and not a ISIS 5000. That is also what some of our customers were using with regard to the file count limitation. Sorry about that.
https://www.avid.com/US/products/Unity-MediaNetwork/
JM
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Thanks for the help. Yeah, just looking at the 5000. When you talk about the correct NIC, are you saying the second port on a Mac Pro isn’t good enough? Also, why is there a 30% drop in FCP performance?
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The NIC onboard the Mac (1 or 2) are 100% supported by Avid. Chalk it up to better parts, or chalk it up to no surprises with 1 CPU manufacturer…regardless, they are supported.
Avid’s Media Composer and FCP write data differently. ISIS is an Avid product, thus, ISIS is designed with Media Composer in mind…i.e. optimized to use it. Avid opened up to allow (and support) FCP, but cannot alter their product to suit a 3rd party product, I would imagine.
Your throughput may vary. This is ballpark, and not to be taken as a definite number. In fact, Avid even states a higher number:
“Final Cut Pro editing systems require 30% to 50% more bandwidth than Avid Media Composer at similar resolutions.”
See the doc here, scroll to page 18:
https://avid.custkb.com/avid/app/selfservice/search.jsp?DocId=348209&Hilite=Avid+Unity+ISIS+v1.5+Performance+GuideCut and paste of the intro:
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The following list characterizes the setup guidelines for your Final Cut Pro client with Avid Unity ISIS:• You need to stay in line with the general client parameters specified for all Avid Unity ISIS Macintosh clients. The following are the specific hardware details used in the Avid testing:
-Platforms — Mac Pro (early 2008) “Harpertown” Dual Quad-Core 3.0 or 3.2 GHz.
-Operating system — Mac OS 10.6.2 and later.
-Avid Unity ISIS — Ethernet connection using the built-in network ports on the Macintosh system.
• Final Cut Pro editing software was characterized with the AJA KONA hardware. The complete Apple Studio 2 bundle was installed.
• Verification tests on Apple Color and Sound Track Pro were run to verify Push – Pull capabilities.
• Final Cut Pro media should be in its own mirrored Storage Group (RAID Storage Groups not qualified). Including:
-Scratch disks
-Project filesDo not mix Final Cut Pro clients and Avid editor clients within the same Storage Group.
When Final Cut Pro clients are sharing the same Storage Group as Avid editing clients,
the Final Cut Pro clients have poor performance.• Final Cut Pro clients are supported in ISIS Zones 1 and Zone 2 (not Zone 3).
• The Avid Unity ISIS Client Manager preference settings follow the same guidelines as for Avid editors. The default setting is set to Medium Resolution (limited to resolutions that draw 16 MB/s or less). Use the High Resolution setting when working with High Definition media (resolutions that draw higher than 16 MB/s). For data rate specifications, see the data in the following tables.
• Final Cut Pro editing systems require 30% to 50% more bandwidth than Avid Media Composer at similar resolutions. • The number of Final Cut Pro clients supported in a Storage Group are about 1/2 the number of Avid Media Composer clients at similar resolutions.
• Digidesign Pro Tools software was not tested with Final Cut Pro clients.
Scaling the Avid Unity ISIS environment is based on the amount of bandwidth an ISIS engine (or several engines) is able to provide. A single ISIS engine is comprised of 16 storage blades and can produce upwards of 200 MB/s aggregate throughput by serving multiple Final Cut Pro clients simultaneously.
Scaling an Avid Unity ISIS beyond a single engine effectively scales in a linear fashion based on a single engines performance. To calculate the rating for your ISIS system, use the following table to define an engine’s capabilities based on the chunk size selected when creating a Storage Group and the resolutions in use.
~Michael
.: michael kammes mpse
.: senior applications editor . post workflow consultant
.: audio specialist . act fcp . acsr
.: michaelkammes.comHear me pontificate: Speaking Schedule .
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Thank you Michael. Very helpful, Jason
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Hello Michael, just want to make sure I am reading this correctly. On page 21 of the doc, the last row of the last chart has the data rate as 45 MB/sec. They mean 45 Mb/sec correct? If it is 45Mb/sec, then it says playing 1 stream of that codec requires 11MB or 88Mb/sec. Roughly twice the data rate of the codec itself.
Lastly, how does FCP count streams on playout? If you are only monitoring V4 (no PIP or effects), and you have 3 loaded video tracks below that, is that 1 stream or 4?
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To tell you the truth, I didn’t find the chart easily followable.
Pro Res 422 Proxy 1080p/30, runs at 5.63 MB/s, which equals 45.03Mb/s. That means someone hit the shift key while hitting “B”, and they meant to say MegaBITs, not MegaBYTES.
Look at Page 1. RAID is spelled wrong too, so perhaps proofing the doc wasn’t doe so well, eh?
Each concurrent visible video track with media is a stream. Thus, a video track with 3 PIPs (when all are visible), are 4 streams.
~Michael
.: michael kammes mpse
.: senior applications editor . post workflow consultant
.: audio specialist . act fcp . acsr
.: michaelkammes.comHear me pontificate: Speaking Schedule .
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Get an X-SAN!
Mark
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Oh Mark, trying to stir the pot 😉
~M
.: michael kammes mpse
.: senior applications editor . post workflow consultant
.: audio specialist . act fcp . acsr
.: michaelkammes.comHear me pontificate: Speaking Schedule .
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