isis 5000

[Mark Raudonis]

Not really.

Listen to all those “provisional specs”. Sounds like they’re willing to enable FCP to work ONLY well enough to compare UNfavourably to Avid. Why bother? If you’re starting anew, get a system that’s optimized for FCP, not one that will just “tolerate” it.

Now, don’t even get me started on the “EOL” of Apple’s X-Serve!

Mark

[Jason Watkins]

Turns out the performance guide we were looking at was for the ISIS7000. The performance guide for the 5000 looks a lot better. Here it is for those who are interested:

https://avid.custkb.com/avid/app/selfservice/search.jsp?DocId=384751&ssdF

[Michael Kammes]

I *thought* that was odd.

As I said, I only ever saw a 15-50% performance hit, and the 5000 guide backs it up. I just cut and pasted the wrong doc – sorry!

~Michael

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[Pierre Sudre]

Hi,
I’m sorry to dig up this old thread.

I have a similar question regarding the capabilty of the ISIS 5000 and Final Cut Pro (7.0.3)

We’re editing a fashion show with 14 Cameras (I’m ingesting with multiples Macpros and MovieREC in Apple Prores HQ 25PsF –22 to 24MB/Sec–)
Everything is recorded in realtime into a shared LAN (3xISIS 5000 32TB).

The fashion show is 20minutes long. (~30GB)
Overall size of the fashion show 14×30 = 420GB

This is edited by 4 editors. They do not edit in multicamera mode, it would be useless for the kind of editing we’re doing.
They make timelines with the 14 cameras (from V1 to V14) and activate/deactivate clips constantly. Nevertheless, Final Cut only read the last activated track.
This works fine with an Lacie External hard drive connected with a FireWire 800 cable. In a shared lan, not so much.

I have others films to edit mostly shot with 5D Mk III converted in Prores HQ 25PsF as well, simplier timelines, 2 to 4 video tracks (11 Macpro in total), overall 2TB of shared data (everything Apple Prores HQ 25PsF).

We did our math (maybe not the right way?), and it should work fine.
I was told a single Isis 500 could handle 300MB/s read/write.
Even with the 30% performance loss rule because it’s Final Cut and not avid, 3 ISIS should be more than enough.

Yet, the editors kept getting the “RT unlimited” error saying basically than the disk speed is too slow. Even if the Isis was displaying 200 to 300 MB/SEC in READING Max total.

Some MacPros where setup in double attachment mode (not sure if it’s the right technical term), basically, they were connected with not one but two RJ45/Ethernet cable (180MB/Sec read/write) to improve speed, and still they somehow got the RT error message.

So do you think it’s wise to add more ISIS ? Or simply Final Cut is not made shared storage lan.

This is getting me crazy, I want so bad to switch to AVID/MC6, but my editors are not ready yet…

Thanks for your help.

Pierre

[Michael Kammes]

Yes, an ISIS will spit out 300MB/s per chassis – max.

Have you used Path Diag (free diagnostic on every ISIS install) to test transfer rates from the ISIS to your machine?

Do that, see how fast your connection is. Also, if you are bonding the connections, you have that set within the ISIS client app, yes?

Are you going through an Avid sanctioned Ethernet switch – or direct connect?

Have you reset / deleted your preferences in FCP since adding ISIS?

Is your OS and ISIS client app at the right versions for ISIS?

I would reset FCP preferences, start a new FCP project and put 1 clip on a video track. See if that plays. Then add another – do a manual picture in picture. See if that plays. Keep doing that until FCP throws up an error. Count how many tracks and see if the total tracks data rate is more than the path diag says.

FCP on ISIS 5000 is VERY common, so this should work just fine.

~Michael

.: michael kammes mpse
.: senior technology & workflow consultant
.: audio specialist . act fcp . acsr
.: michaelkammes.com
.: twitter: @michaelkammes
.: facebook: /mkammes

Hear me pontificate: Speaking Schedule .

[Pierre Sudre]

Thank you Michael for replying so fast.

We used Path Diag, and the speed were fine, 100MB/sec read write for single attachment (1 RJ45/ethernet cable) and 180MB/sec read write for double attachment (2xRJ45/ethernet cable).
I double checked with BlackMagicSpeedTest and the results were similar.

All the Final Cut Pro 7.0.3 were fresh install. I tried reseting the settings as well, same result.

By the way, I forgot to mention it, I don’t own this equipment (the 3xIsis), I’m renting it to a post house. Since we’re renting it again next week, I want to see what I else I could to improve the workflow.
The post house is telling me this setup works fine in Apple ProRes -LT for sure, Apple ProRes (normal) should work. But for Apple ProRes -HQ they don’t know why.

Are you going through an Avid sanctioned Ethernet switch – or direct connect? —> It was an ethernet switch, I don’t know if it was sanctionned by Avid or not, I’m going to ask.

Is your OS and ISIS client app at the right versions for ISIS? —> It should have been, I’m going to ask.

I would reset FCP preferences, start a new FCP project and put 1 clip on a video track. See if that plays. Then add another – do a manual picture in picture. See if that plays. Keep doing that until FCP throws up an error. Count how many tracks and see if the total tracks data rate is more than the path diag says. —> I’ll try.

During my initial tests, I put several heavy timelines with multiples video tracks (up to 10) on 8 computers, playing at the same time. It was working fine at first, but after an hour, the RT message started to appear, and the only option was to reboot the computer, sometimes, emptying the PRAM helped, but it’s a variable solution, to a problem that should or should work, Period. So I don’t get what’s wrong, but again, it’s not MY setup, but still I wan’t to understand.

Thanks again for your help. I’ll get back to you with more answers.

[Michael Kammes]

If you are getting 100MB/s & 180MB/s…that’s really good. I normally only see that on simple configs with low user count.

When everyone is hitting the ISIS, and you view the ISIS webpage, what are you seeing in terms of user performance? There is a sidebar on the left that shows throughput per user (Read and Write)

The 14 tracks sound a bit scary, but I presume if you are toggling all but one of them off and on, you should have no issue. The PiP test is a basic one and one that many installers use to real world test multiple streams at once.

Are you SURE the limitation is the ISIS bandwidth and not the FCP machine?

.: michael kammes mpse
.: senior technology & workflow consultant
.: audio specialist . act fcp . acsr
.: michaelkammes.com
.: twitter: @michaelkammes
.: facebook: /mkammes

Hear me pontificate: Speaking Schedule .

[Pierre Sudre]

Hi again,
I’ve got more answers :

Are you going through an Avid sanctioned Ethernet switch – or direct connect?
—> The switch was a switch Force 10 25SN sanctioned by Avid

(From release note 4.1

• Force10® Networks S25N switch (qualified in the ISIS 5000 environment) containing 24
1-Gb ports on the front, and two slots on the back for 10 Gb XFP modules or 12 Gb stacking
modules. The 12 Gb stacking modules allow for interconnecting two S25N switches when
more than 24 client connections are in use.)

Is your OS and ISIS client app at the right versions for ISIS?
—> The OS was 10.6.8 and the ISIS Client Isis 5000 was version 4.1 which should be right.

When everyone is hitting the ISIS, and you view the ISIS webpage, what are you seeing in terms of user performance? There is a sidebar on the left that shows throughput per user (Read and Write)
—> The Isis was displaying 200 to 300 MB/SEC in READING Max total. I can not remember what was the user performance for a single computer, I’ll have to check that again as soon as the setup is ready next week.

The 14 tracks sound a bit scary, but I presume if you are toggling all but one of them off and on, you should have no issue. The PiP test is a basic one and one that many installers use to real world test multiple streams at once.
—> Scary indeed, but again, it works fine with an external FW800 single harddrive, I’ll try the PiP test as well.

Are you SURE the limitation is the ISIS bandwidth and not the FCP machine?
—> The MacPros were 4.1 (Nehalem) with 8GB Memory.

Thanks for your help.