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Is Pro-Res still an option for archiving?
I posted the below a few days ago . . . no one reacted . . . is it too newb a question? Not a “problem” topic?
Now related, Apple will be deprecating many codecs for any post-Mojave OS’s — how will this affect archiving?
And I’m still wondering, if a camera codec can be a small file with good quality, is there a small file codec that can be used for archiving? Instead of large “mezzanine” codecs like ProRes and DNxHD than some use?Thanks for any thoughts.
RobertH264 vs Other for archiving
by Robert Withers
on Dec 14, 2018 at 12:47:19 pmHi all,
I’m on a list for media archives and libraries and many don’t seem to know a lot about digital codecs(!).
I don’t know more than a little (;-)) I archive my projects in ProRes.
One question that comes up when people are trying to make files that are small but have good, recoverable quality . . . are there h265 or h265 codecs that will preserve quality as well as large files like ProRes or DNxHD or other ? Or other good codecs that are small files with recoverable quality?
I know files like ProRes and DNxHD are big to enable frame-accurate editing, but they are often converted from smaller camera files that must be of the highest quality, no? Is there a way to reverse this process?
There are long and thorough answers to this I’m sure but would be grateful for any rules of thumb or top of mind.
I bothers me that I don’t know.
Thanks,
RobertRobert Withers
Independent/personal/avant-garde cinema, New York City
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16 Replies
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The common thinking is lossless compression of 2:1 and that’s either the J2K propriety route in something like MXF or open source FFV1 in MKV wrapper.
It’s pretty much accepted that ProRes makes no sense going forward and many are looking at migrating their ProRes archives to FFV1.Pat Horridge
Broadcast & Post Consultant, Trainer, Avid Certified Instructor
Free online Tutorials at VET digital media academy online https://vimeo.com/channels/752951
pat@vet.co.uk -
Thank you, Pat.
I have heard of some of the things you mention but don’t really understand them. I will research MXF and FFV1. And whether my NLEs will export to them or if there is software to convert my ProRes to them.
Best,
RobetRobert Withers
Independent/personal/avant-garde cinema, New York City
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FFMPEG is a command line app that will convert to FFV1 in an MKV wrapper.
You can get FFMPEG for mac or pc.Pat Horridge
Broadcast & Post Consultant, Trainer, Avid Certified Instructor
Free online Tutorials at VET digital media academy online https://vimeo.com/channels/752951
pat@vet.co.uk -
Thanks, I thought it was an app. Larry Jordan wrote about it. Now I need to learn about the FFV1 codec (is that right?)and the MXF and MKV wrappers as options for archiving. I have never used them. I wonder if NLEs will convert to them. I will research.
Thanks for your pointers!
Best,
RobertRobert Withers
Independent/personal/avant-garde cinema, New York City
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You won’t get direct NLE support.
Export as SAS and convert outside.
. MOV is legacy now. So for FFV1 I’d look at MKV.Pat Horridge
Broadcast & Post Consultant, Trainer, Avid Certified Instructor
Free online Tutorials at VET digital media academy online https://vimeo.com/channels/752951
pat@vet.co.uk -
Here’s something I found about FFV1. Does anyone in production use it for archiving? Can a file be restored or recovered with standard equipment and software?
The reduced file sizes produced via FFV1 are exciting, but there are some downsides. Although FFV1 is open-source, the files will not play using standard video software on Mac and Windows, nor can FFV1 be utilized within commercially-available digitization hardware and software (only via terminal command). This is because no major company (Apple, Microsoft, Adobe, Blackmagic, etc.) has adopted the codec, or announced plans to do so. Any file format that does not eventually achieve widespread adoption and universal playback capability within the broadcasting and filmmaking communities, has a higher risk of long-term obsolescence, and lack of engineering support. https://blogs.library.duke.edu/bitstreams/2015/05/08/the-pros-and-cons-of-ffv1/
That was from 2015. Has anything changed since then?
Thanks,
RobertRobert Withers
Independent/personal/avant-garde cinema, New York City
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Yes it has. There has been big move away from. Propriety solutions.
VLC player supports it as do a number of others. But you are right it stands outside current main stream solutions.
But think a second about the wisdom of following a propriety code solution and long term support. Maybe like ProRes and QuickTime.
This is exactly why the drive to open source is growing.Pat Horridge
Broadcast & Post Consultant, Trainer, Avid Certified Instructor
Free online Tutorials at VET digital media academy online https://vimeo.com/channels/752951
pat@vet.co.uk -
Pat makes a good point about the move away from proprietary solutions; it makes logical and safe sense, in theory.
However, I will say he is the first person I’ve seen to say “it’s pretty much accepted that ProRes makes no sense going forward”
As you pointed out none of the major players/companies/etc support FFV1. If you want to be absolutely safe, then you can archive in BOTH ProRes and FFV1, yes it takes up more space, but there’s always going to be a tradeoff somewhere.
@ericstrand11
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If you start with ProRes then FFV1 doesn’t gain you much in the short term. But ProRes isn’t lossless. It’s around 5:1 compression. FFV1 is lossless. For archiving a 2:1 compression that’s lossless is a massive plus.
Pat Horridge
Broadcast & Post Consultant, Trainer, Avid Certified Instructor
Free online Tutorials at VET digital media academy online https://vimeo.com/channels/752951
pat@vet.co.uk -
Thanks Eric. My initial speculation was about the possibility of archiving to a compressed format like cameras use instead of large-file mezzanine codecs like Pro-Res. So archiving to 2 codecs might be a good idea but is it possible to archive to a compressed format with smaller file sizes? We often convert high-quality compressed camera codecs to large files for editing — is it possible to go back the other way?
Best,
RobertRobert Withers
Independent/personal/avant-garde cinema, New York City
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