Is anyone rendering 23.976 footage transcoded or rewrapped with FCPX out of Color? Xto7 7toX

[Jeremy Garchow]

[Oliver Peters] “OK, so we are back to what I said in the first place. It’s an FCP X bug, not a Color problem. Or it’s in Xto7. The issue is likely a mis-tagging of frame rate metadata. At various points Apple has frequently mislabeled 23.98 as 24 (but meaning 23.98). It could be there’s an error in the XML translation due to that. Also there are metadata differences between how Apple writes the tags for its 23.98 and how others write 23.976.”

But only after rendering from Color, i.e, this is brand new media generated in Color.

All other media in every where points to 23.98, Color reads 23.98, then renders 24.0.

I’ll ask Intelligent Assistance tomorrow, but the translation seems good.

[Jeremy Garchow]

I am far from an XML master, but using one clip and sending it through the pipeline, everything points to 23.98, even the Color XML.

It’s just the media that’s rendered 24. This seems like a bug.

Jeremy

[Oliver Peters]

[Jeremy Garchow] “I am far from an XML master, but using one clip and sending it through the pipeline, everything points to 23.98, even the Color XML.
“

XMLs often embed funky information that comes up wrong in the receiving application. Don’t assume that the XML itself isn’t messing up the process. For example, I’ve had conversions from FCP X to FCP 7 via Xto7 do completely bizarre things to audio clips on the FCP 7 timeline, as well as mess up the total timeline itself.

– Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com

[David Camacho]

I believe it is a color problem…I was reading this thread and it made me go back and check a project I had just finished round tripping (never touched FCPX). Color ID’d prores files as 24fps even though project was
23.98fps

But the weirdest thing is after Media Managing the project I went to check those files and some AE renders that never went to color are now flagged at 24fps…

[Jeremy Garchow]

[Oliver Peters] “For example, I’ve had conversions from FCP X to FCP 7 via Xto7 do completely bizarre things to audio clips on the FCP 7 timeline, as well as mess up the total timeline itself.”

I have with Synchronized Clips as well, and if you did the math, you could see that the error is in the XML.

That’s not so in this case.

I can look and see the video rate of the clips in both the FCPXML and the XML, and they all point to 23.98.

The media file itself is 24.0 rendered from Color.

There is something about the original media files that Color does not like and since Color is dead and won’t be updated to handle the new media files, I can make media that Color does like via FCP7s media manager, or simply skip Color.

At least that’s what I seem to be gathering by looking at it.

[Jeremy Garchow]

[David Camacho] “I believe it is a color problem…I was reading this thread and it made me go back and check a project I had just finished round tripping (never touched FCPX). Color ID’d prores files as 24fps even though project was
23.98fps

But the weirdest thing is after Media Managing the project I went to check those files and some AE renders that never went to color are now flagged at 24fps…”

Thanks so much for this information, David.

It leads me to believe that this isn’t entirely an FCPX problem, but something with Color/FCS3.

Jeremy

[Oliver Peters]

Another set of tests.

Test 1

Ingest C300 clip into FCP X (this rewraps, codec stays native)
Export FCPXML – Xto7 – import into FCP 7
Send to Color, render, send to FCP 7
Export XML – 7toX – import into FCP X

In all cases, everything shows up as 23.98 EXCEPT when the Color-rendered file is played in a media player, like QT 7 or QT X. Only there does it show as 24.0 fps.

Test 2

Ingest the same C300 file into FCP 7 using Log and Transfer (transcodes to ProRes)
Send to Color, render, send to FCP 7
Export XML – 7toX – import into FCP X

In all cases, everything shows up as 23.98 INCLUDING when the Color rendered file is played in a media player, like QT 7 or QT X.

Test 3

Ingest the same C300 file into FCP 7 using Log and Transfer (rewrap only, codec stays native)
Send to Color, render, send to FCP 7
Export XML – 7toX – import into FCP X

In all cases, everything shows up as 23.98 INCLUDING when the Color rendered file is played in a media player, like QT 7 or QT X.

I’m still leaning to a bug in FCP X ingest from camera. My guess is something about the metadata.
The other possibility is this has something to do with the Canon codec itself in X.

– Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com

[Oliver Peters]

FWIW – have you trashed your Color prefs?

– Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com

[Jeremy Garchow]

Thank you, Oliver, for going through that test. This is exactly what I am seeing.

David says he is seeing this bug in Color round trips from After Effects renders that have never touched FCPX.

I don’t think the problem lies with FCPX itself, but more from how these new media files are getting created. Color, it seems, can’t decipher the new media files.

Color prefs have been trashed and I have tested on multiple machines (different users/prefs/etc).

Jeremy

[Oliver Peters]

[Jeremy Garchow] “David says he is seeing this bug in Color round trips from After Effects renders that have never touched FCPX.”

Yes. Not sure why. I do know that Adobe expresses the video integer (24 versus 23.976 or 30 versus 29.97) as a different fraction format than does Apple. Could be a clue to why there’s an issue. I have also imported 23.98 files (from other exports) into FCP X and X sees them as needing rendering, while FCP 7 does not. No clue why, but I have more faith in Color and FCP 7 than I do in X.

Right now all the PAL folks are rolling on the floor laughing at us 😉

– Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com