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Interesting announcement from Black Magic
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[Walter Soyka] “DNxHD in MOV (the only way I’ve ever had media sent to me from an Avid) can be played with standard desktop tools, and it can be fast-imported (rewrapped, not re-encoded) into Avid.”
I’ll show you what was handed to me tomorrow and how I had to deal with it. A mov would have been easier, for sure.
[Walter Soyka] “The industry’s reliance on Apple’s QuickTime is staggering when there’s an open, SMPTE-standard container format like MXF available. Especially given how convoluted MXF is, better desktop support would be a big deal.”
Thank you, sir. That is what I am trying to say. It’s my number one complaint with fcp, too, legacy and x. If we are moving to tapeless society, let’s really do it. Quit half stepping.
Doesnt mc6 come with squeeze? What’s the MXF support there?
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[Jeremy Garchow] “I’ll show you what was handed to me tomorrow and how I had to deal with it. A mov would have been easier, for sure.”
All the more reason to become NLE-agnostic. The preponderance of competing digital formats is going to get worse before it gets better. Why not equip yourself with the tools to handle whatever comes in the door?
[Jeremy Garchow] “That is what I am trying to say. It’s my number one complaint with fcp, too, legacy and x. If we are moving to tapeless society, let’s really do it. Quit half stepping.”
Is Quicktime vs MXF really all that different than DVCPRO HD vs HDCAM?
The best thing about standards is that there are so many to chose from.
Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog – What I’m thinking when my workstation’s thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events -
[Jeremy Garchow] ” And is that an option with Avid? No?”
Yes, you can export an OP-1A .mxf from Avid. But Avid media is OP-Atom.
[Jeremy Garchow] “Isn’t that what the release alludes to?”
Release of the Hyperdeck? No, that’s Avid MXF acquisition for direct-to-edit (like KiPro with ProRes). MC6 release and new openness? No, that’s open to third party hardware and reading more acquisition formats natively. Buy Avid if you need to read Avid media, or install the trial.
[Jeremy Garchow] “Avid would do well to open this up if we are entering the age of DNxHD. “
DNxHD is the codec. What you seem to be talking about is the “age of MXF”. I’ve never had .mxf as a delivery requirement – if I did, I buy the software I needed to do it.
[Jeremy Garchow] “If I am entering the age of DNxHD and I am not going to buy an Avid, I can’t do this and I don’t have a way to wrap to MXF whatever the pattern, using QT can be funky. I’d rather use hardware, and I’d rather be able to deliver what is required. If dnxhd movs are easier, why is it so hard without an Avid?”
If you’re talking about wrapping Avid MXF files to a Quicktime for delivery, buy the Avid software and be done with it. I had to buy decoders for Quicktimes that were delivered in proprietary codecs – it’s the cost of doing business. If a hard drive was delivered with .mxf files from an Avid I’d buy the software or install the trial (likely just install the trial) and get the job done. It’s a simple solution.
If you’re talking about making Quicktime files encoded to DNxHD – download the codecs and make them. That’s even easier.
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Michael Hancock
Editor -
[Jeremy Garchow] “Doesnt mc6 come with squeeze? What’s the MXF support there?”
I believe Squeeze’s MXF support is for XDCAM and AVC-Intra, but I could be mistaken.
Telestream Episode Pro (my compression app of choice) supports MXF output for XDCAM, Op1a, and OpAtom flavors. There’s a check box for wrapping Avid-compliant OpAtom. I haven’t tried it, but I could try to give it a go tomorrow. I’m not sure off-hand about how widely and deeply it supports MXF input, but maybe I can give that a go, too.
Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog – What I’m thinking when my workstation’s thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events -
[Walter Soyka] “Is Quicktime vs MXF really all that different than DVCPRO HD vs HDCAM?”
I believe it is yes, it’s the difference between HDCam in a rectangular tape vs HDCam in a round tape, if such a thing existed.
The essence of the file, the audio/video/tc/metadata is sitting right there, most of the time in a codec that is on the computer.
By the way, the free MXF Player from MXF4mac is nice too. You can play P2 MXF files without a component.
[Walter Soyka] “All the more reason to become NLE-agnostic”
It’s a beautiful idea, but it’s not entirely practical for us. With Avid being open to third party hardware since just yesterday, it is becoming more practical. It would require maintaining a separate boot drive to do things correctly across four “seats” in our case, as Avid has decently strict OS requirements. I also have no idea what it would do to our San. Sounds like a lot do work for me, not sure if it’s worth it.
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[Michael Hancock] “Yes, you can export an OP-1A .mxf from Avid”
Oh, Shane said that wasn’t possible earlier today, but whatever. Mistakes can be made.
[Michael Hancock] “If you’re talking about wrapping Avid MXF files to a Quicktime for delivery, buy the Avid software and be done with it.”
Mmm no. Got anything cheaper and won’t require me to install a new OS? Or how about the expensive gear I already have? What won’t that work? I’m being difficult here on purpose.
[Michael Hancock] “No, that’s Avid MXF acquisition for direct-to-edit (like KiPro with ProRes”
yeah, but I use my KiPro to deliver quite a bit, not just for acquisition.
[Michael Hancock] “If you’re talking about making Quicktime files encoded to DNxHD – download the codecs and make them. That’s even easier.”
yeah, but that gamma shift is for real.
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[Walter Soyka] “Telestream Episode Pro (my compression app of choice) supports MXF output for XDCAM, Op1a, and OpAtom flavors. There’s a check box for wrapping Avid-compliant OpAtom. I haven’t tried it, but I could try to give it a go tomorrow. I’m not sure off-hand about how widely and deeply it supports MXF input, but maybe I can give that a go, too.”
Now we are getting somewhere.
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Hi Jeremy,
Your right we have a variety of deliverable codecs and we have to send material all around the world – what the issue here (UK) is the Broadcasters are not receiving HD Commercial Content from us and other suppliers – there is a whole lot of issues with the coding of material (ISCI/SLATE Duration) and we have been active over the past 24 months working with the Broadcasters on this.
The Specs you have pointed out (I did them) are for our SD delivery Chain and as we are aware DNxHD is a HD only Codec, in the coming weeks we are hopeful the UK industry will be ready for the HD deliverable and this will include
MPEG2 422 100i Transport Stream
DNxHD 185 1080i
ProresHQ
and MXFthe main challenged we have is the multiple audio channels – not only the 7.1 but different languages for the European sector.
As Adstream is a complete global company we need to tread carefully into all regions so we have formality in all of our offices, I am currently working out of our Madrid office, after spending 3 months in our Miami office looking at LatAm and European roadmaps for HD.
When it comes to the deliverable of material to Adstream there are a few factors that we need to look out for;
Closed Caption / teletext
HD – 1920×1080 no Progressive at this stage BUT Japan are looking at adopting this
SD requires to be 720×608 / 720 x 512 (VBI) for all the mPEG2 4:2:2
Correct audio configuration – USA use wall to wall but UK requires mute 12 frames at top and tail and also require a 10 sec freeze at the endI can bore you all with this but we are here to help you all!!!
The White Pages don’t specify AVID Merdian but we accept that and we also receive Digital Betacams still – so if you are working on Vegas, Premiere, FCP, FCPX, AVID, Flame – smoke we are here to help for FREE 😉
Adstream London, England
4 x Mac Pros, FCP7, 4 x Flip Factories, 35 x Rhozet Carbon Coders, Offices Globally
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[Jeremy Garchow] “Mmm no. Got anything cheaper and won’t require me to install a new OS? Or how about the expensive gear I already have? What won’t that work? I’m being difficult here on purpose.”
Cheaper? Won’t Calibrated’s MXF work? It’s $250. That’s pretty cheap. As far as installing a new OS – Media Composer 6 is approved for Lion but has been reported working under Snow Leopard 10.6.8. What OS are you on?
What expensive gear will be rendered useless if you buy one copy of Media Composer specifically to handle Avid files sent to you (like the Italy job)? Why be difficult on purpose? If you don’t want to buy a copy of Media Composer that’s fine, but you can’t deny that it’s a fast, simple, and relatively inexpensive solution to a problem.
[Jeremy Garchow] “yeah, but I use my KiPro to deliver quite a bit, not just for acquisition.”
Because a Quicktime ProRes is a Quicktime ProRes. An MXF is not an MXF is not an MXF, hence why the Hyperdeck is acquisition MXF only (I’m assuming – haven’t used one to see how it actually captures the footage – going off theory here).
Personally, I don’t see .mxf being requested much at all, but DNxHD added to the list of acceptable codecs, yes. It’s been around longer than ProRes and proved reliable, it’s SMPTE certified, and it looks like more and more companies are supporting it. I don’t expect ProRes to disappear though unless Apple kills it completely. You’ll get the choice to deliver one or the other.
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Michael Hancock
Editor -
[Craig RussillRoy] “The Specs you have pointed out (I did them) are for our SD delivery Chain and as we are aware DNxHD is a HD only Codec, in the coming weeks we are hopeful the UK industry will be ready for the HD deliverable and this will include”
Sorry, I meant to point out those specs were specifically for the UK and Ireland. I should have mentioned that, thank you.
The new delivery formats sound encouraging. We will be delivering another round of spots this year, and now that we know the drill, it will make it a bit easier this time around. The 12 frame silent top/tail threw us for a little bit there. I completely understand why it’s necessary, though.
This year, we will shoot the spots with that in mind, which helps! Last year when shooting, we didn’t know we would be sending spots over to Adstream.
[Craig RussillRoy] “I can bore you all with this but we are here to help you all!!!”
Thank you, Craig.
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