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Interesting announcement from Black Magic
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[Walter Soyka] ” Is it smooth enough for an all-ProRes workflow on the Mac?”
Absolutely! Very smooth.
[Walter Soyka] “Can you use AMA with ProRes Quicktime media comfortably before rendering out to ProRes”
Yes. Or you can fast import to ProRes MXF if you want. Working with footage via AMA still has minor hiccups here and there, like with AAF for audio possibly, or export same as source. Always better to do MXF if you can.
[Walter Soyka] “or would you still prefer a standard import/transcode?”
Depends on the deadline. I always prefer to work with the media that is optimized for the NLE I am using. What might take a little while longer in the beginning always saves me time in the end, or while editing. But, I have edited with ProRes via AMA when I was beta testing, and it was just like normal. I only did a small project though…not a full 45 min, or 90 min show.
Shane
GETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD…don’t miss it.
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def -
Good to know — thank you, Shane.
Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog – What I’m thinking when my workstation’s thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events -
John, you got me so excited about the HyperDeck Studio that I totally failed to notice that BMD has announced DaVinci Resolve 8.1.1 Lite.
It’s free, it has UNLIMITED nodes, and it has DNxHD support.
More here:
https://forums.creativecow.net/thread/277/11930Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog – What I’m thinking when my workstation’s thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events -
The Atomos Samurai which was recently released records ProRes or DNxHD via HD SDI input. It is the big brother to the Ninja
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MXF for macs are tough, though.
How does Avid handle it? If you have an Avid created dnxhd based MXF can you play it in Quicktime, for example?
If you export an MXF, it is op1a (one file) or atom (separate audio/video)? Does it do better then the mess of files it creates while capturing?
If I don’t have Avid ( and pretend I don’t have any KiPros) how would I deliver a DNxHD MXF?
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[Jeremy Garchow] “MXF for macs are tough, though. “
Ex-squeeze me? What? Can you explain that? Tough how? I have been editing with FCP on macs for pretty much my entire 15 year career…and before that…in college…so 18 years. And when it switched from OMFI to MXF, there wasn’t one issue. So…not sure what you mean by that at all.
[Jeremy Garchow] “How does Avid handle it?”
Uhm…fine? That is the native Avid format. That is the format Avid prefers. It actually handles it better than FCP handles Quicktime. This question also puzzles me.
[Jeremy Garchow] ” If you have an Avid created dnxhd based MXF can you play it in Quicktime, for example?”
No. Well, yes, if you have MXF4Mac or Calibrated you can. But other than that…no. They aren’t designed to be played in QT. You are trying to approach AVID like you do FCP…and you simply cannot. They don’t work the same way. MXF files are pretty much limited to being used in the Avid application. Not designed to be opened by other apps outside of that.
[Jeremy Garchow] “If you export an MXF, it is op1a (one file) or atom (separate audio/video)?”
Typically MXF files are separate. Video is a separate file, and each audio channel is a separate file. Not sure if there is a way to make an MXF file that is a combination of all…but I don’t think it is supposed to work that way. Again, you are trying to apply the methodology of one NLE to another.
[Jeremy Garchow] “Does it do better then the mess of files it creates while capturing?”
Those mess of files are all tracked by Avid internally. And very well. IN fact, you can delete audio from a sequence and consolidate it and ONLY consolidate the video. Can’t do that with FCP…the audio is part of the QT file, so if you media manage the files, video and audio all go. The same with audio…delete video and consolidate only audio…you get only audio…not video. Very useful for certain workflows.
[Jeremy Garchow] “If I don’t have Avid ( and pretend I don’t have any KiPros) how would I deliver a DNxHD MXF?”
From what? For what? If someone wants DNxHD media files for use in editing, then you get an Avid and AMA whatever footage (or import) you have, then transcode. Give me a specific example and I can see if I can help. OH…and you can deliver DNxHD Quicktimes, with audio and video tied, and Avid can import those…
Shane
GETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD…don’t miss it.
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def -
[Shane Ross] “Ex-squeeze me? What? Can you explain that? Tough how? I have been editing with FCP on macs for pretty much my entire 15 year career…and before that…in college…so 18 years. And when it switched from OMFI to MXF, there wasn’t one issue. So…not sure what you mean by that at all.”
Absolutely I’ll explain. We are talking about DNxHD deliverables, right?
If I don’t have Avid, how do I write a DNxHD MXF?
If I get sent a DNxHD MXF and I don’t have Avid, how do I read it?
Avid’s MXF needs to allow these things to happen (without paying for a seat) if DNxHD is to be a deliverable.
ProRes readability comes with QuickTime on windows or Mac. For free.
[Shane Ross] “No. Well, yes, if you have MXF4Mac or Calibrated you can. But other than that…no.”
Exactly.
[Shane Ross] “They aren’t designed to be played in QT. You are trying to approach AVID like you do FCP…and you simply cannot. They don’t work the same way. MXF files are pretty much limited to being used in the Avid application. Not designed to be opened by other apps outside of that. “
I think that would need to change if DNxHD is to be a deliverable and ubiquitous as ProRes. That’s all I’m saying. Avid MXFs should be available to the MacOS. I can do it now with third party software, and some serious tweaks. If Avid is to move to being “open” then do it.
[Shane Ross] “Typically MXF files are separate. Video is a separate file, and each audio channel is a separate file. Not sure if there is a way to make an MXF file that is a combination of all…but I don’t think it is supposed to work that way. Again, you are trying to apply the methodology of one NLE to another.”
No. I’m not. I am talking about “the age of DNxHD” as you called it and someone asked if Adstream accepts DNxHD, you said to use MXF, therefore, how am I to deliver a DNxHD MXF if I don’t have Avid?
[Shane Ross] “Not sure if there is a way to make an MXF file that is a combination of all…but I don’t think it is supposed to work that way. “
Yes, it’s op1a instead of op atom. Some camera shoot this way. MXF (in general) can have embedded audio.
[Shane Ross] “Those mess of files are all tracked by Avid internally. “
I understand, but in the age of DNxHD that I need to be a part of, and if I don’t have Avid, and I receive a mess of files, what do I do with them? RIght now, Atomic Fusion and MXF4mac are the only way I can deal with them, but that’s expensive (Atomic Fusion is free) and most people won’t pay for that. Avid has some responsibility here, that’s all I’m saying dude.
[Shane Ross] “From what? For what?”
The age of DNxHD, of course! For file deliveries. You know, dub houses, post houses, whatever. Instead of “I’ll send you a ProRes” it will be “I’ll send you a DNXHD MXF!”, or you are a dub house and a client sends over a drive and it’s full of a mess of Avid MXF files, and you don’t have Avid.
[Shane Ross] “and you can deliver DNxHD Quicktimes, with audio and video tied, and Avid can import those…”
I am talking output, NOT input in which of course you would have Avid, and Quicktime is easy on a Mac, MXF is not without third parties, and even then it’s not real easy. That brings us back to the beginning nicely, now doesn’t it?
Jeremy
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[Jeremy Garchow] ” Instead of “I’ll send you a ProRes” it will be “I’ll send you a DNXHD MXF!””
You don’t send an MXF. You send a quicktime encoded with DNxHD. If you get a DNxHD Quicktime go to Avid.com and download the codec pack. It’s free for both encode and decode, Mac or PC.
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Michael Hancock
Editor -
Fair points Jeremy.
Yes, truth is that we should separating the talk of DNxHD and MXF — as they don’t always exist as 1 whole unit.
Avid’s preferred codec is DNxHD. Avid’s wrapper is MXF.
When passing around Avid files (DNxHD encoded files) it is often going to be necessary to send them in the quicktime (MOV) wrapper so that they can be viewed and worked with outside the Avid application. While working Avid those files are often going to be wrapped in MXF.
So… what you’re pointing out is really a file wrapper issue more than a ‘format’ issue if you get me… totally valid nonetheless.
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[Jeremy Garchow] “We are talking about DNxHD deliverables, right?”
DNxHD QUICKTIME deliverables. That is what I’m being asked to deliver lately. Not MXF.
[Jeremy Garchow] “If I don’t have Avid, how do I write a DNxHD MXF?”
You don’t. And again, the deliverables aren’t MXF…they are QT. And you can download from Avid, for FREE, the Avid DNxHD codecs, so you can then deliver DNxHD Quicktimes with FCP. I have done that before as well.
[Jeremy Garchow] “If I get sent a DNxHD MXF and I don’t have Avid, how do I read it?”
MXF4Mac, Calibrated…the usual suspects. Or get an Avid. If you are going to be dealing with Avid media files, then you really should have Media Composer in your office. It’s pretty darn cheap.
[Jeremy Garchow] “Avid’s MXF needs to allow these things to happen (without paying for a seat) if DNxHD is to be a deliverable. “
THEY DO! DNxHD Quickime codecs are free. Although some networks do ask for the final Avid project file and Avid media. And when the companies edited with FCP, what did they do? Well, a few hired me to provide those assets. And I did so with Automatic Duck (which is now free) and Avid Media Composer. If you are asked for this deliverable, there is no reason not to have Avid MC in your shop.
What do you do if you are required to deliver a ProRes master, and you don’t have FCP? (well, before MC6 came out)? ProRes encoding was ONLY available if you had Final Cut Studio. Period. So, you needed to buy Final Cut Studio in order to give the network what they needed. Now, you don’t need to. Avid MC6 on the Mac has a ProRes encoder, so you can do that delivery without needing FCP.
[Jeremy Garchow] “ProRes readability comes with QuickTime on windows or Mac. For free.”
Yes, and DNxHD readability, AND ENCODE is free from Avid. Has been for a looooong time. They have a leg up on Apple there. Well, except now Avid MC6 has the ability to encode to ProRes…so…
[Jeremy Garchow] “I think that would need to change if DNxHD is to be a deliverable and ubiquitous as ProRes.”
The DNxHD deliverables have always been QT based. And for that you can use FCP, FCX or Premiere, as long as you have the Avid codecs (free!). No need to have Media Composer.
[Jeremy Garchow] “I am talking about “the age of DNxHD” as you called it and someone asked if Adstream accepts DNxHD, you said to use MXF”
Did I? I said to use MXF? I misspoke then. DNxHD deliverables are typically QT. Refer to the client specs for accurate requirements.
[Jeremy Garchow] “Instead of “I’ll send you a ProRes” it will be “I’ll send you a DNXHD MXF!”,”
No…It’s “I’ll send you a DNxHD Quicktime” typically. There is no way to get a single MXF file that includes audio and video.
[Jeremy Garchow] “or you are a dub house and a client sends over a drive and it’s full of a mess of Avid MXF files, and you don’t have Avid.”
Then you call them back and say “I can’t use these. Send a DNxHD Quicktime file.” Or, better yet, if you are a dub house that wants to meet the needs of the client, get Avid Media Composer. No excuse not to. It is $2500. $1500 if you have any version of FCP. And if you want to meet the needs of clients…have a wide base and make money…you get the tools you need to work with them. If you go “I’m sorry, we are an FCP only shop, so I need you to send me stuff that works with FCP…” The client will look elsewhere. Being ONLY FCP is very limiting. Especially now with FCX out. The pro market will really shrink for you if you are only FCP and FCX.
[Jeremy Garchow] “I am talking output, NOT input in which of course you would have Avid, and Quicktime is easy on a Mac”
And again…DNxHD QUicktimes are very possible, and very common…and the typical deliverable asked for by networks and other clients. NOT MXF.
Shane
GETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD…don’t miss it.
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def
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