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In-Action Story on FCPX and Focus
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[Bill Davis] “In other words, it was VASTLY easier to ignore metadata in Legacy than it is in X. In X, it’s in your face at every turn. So you tend to think of it’s importance much differently.”
This was exactly what I was trying to say. I just used a lot more words and a lot less clarity.
I wonder: if you had to use FCP7 for a new project, would your immersion in metadata via FCPX change your approach to Legendary organization?
Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
@keenlive | RenderBreak [blog] | Profile [LinkedIn] -
[Walter Soyka] “I wonder: if you had to use FCP7 for a new project, would your immersion in metadata via FCPX change your approach to Legendary organization?”
Maybe.
After I regained consciousness, mopped the sweat from my fevered brow, and allowed enough time for the whole body tremors to subside.
; )
Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com – video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.
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[Andy Neil] “Wow, you must really have something against this editor. He went from inexperienced in film, to novice, to assistant editor as your replies have continued.”
I really have nothing at all against him and wish him all the best as I do all the editing community – it’s tough enough earning a liviing as it is without having other editors sniping at you,
But since you wanted to labour the point, I went back and looked at his credits again.
His full credits on imdb (and yes, it’s not an ultimately definitive resource but it’s the best one going) are as follows:
10 credits for “digital mastering” on Maron in 2013.
And three credits as “editor: syndication version” on Curb your Enthusiasm in 2009. I checked the actual Film Editor on those three episodes of Curb and two were edited by Roger Nygard and one by Steve Rasch. I don’t know enough about American TV to know what his credit actually means.
That’s it. That’s the full story according to imdb. Apart from Focus and the upcoming Fun House from the same directors.
Of course, he’s doubtless done a vast amount of editing that’s not going to feature on imdb, but then most editing doesn’t qualify for listing there. However editing experience relevant to your feature film cutting credentials does tend to get listed, unless you’re just very shy and/or want to distance yourself from the projects you’ve been associated with.
Surely you can see that this is quite unusual?
If your agent put you up for editing Focus 2, there would be a lot of hard-headed decision makers at Warners wanting to look at your publicly-listed lead editing credits, and in the normal course of events, unless they included clear evidence you had worked at feature film level or at least the equivalent in TV, it would be extremely unlikely that you’d get the job.
That’s all I’ve been trying to say.
Jan’s appointment as editor of Focus is very unusual given his publicly available track record.
Are you not able to agree on that?
And this is absolutely not a comment on his abilities as a lead editor which could be outstanding – we simply have no way of knowing anything at all about that until Focus comes out, and doubtless not even then, given how hands-on the directors will have been.
But to reiterate I absolutely wish him all the best and congratulate him on delivering this landmark project. Now that is genuinely something to impressed with.
Simon Ubsdell
tokyo-uk.com -
[Andy Neil] “Again, you’re going off the reservation with your assumptions.”
… and conjecture, and unsubstantiated claims, and odd obsession with IMDB as the holy grail and only true measure of anyone’s abilities. 🙂
[Andy Neil] “Who are you talking to that says anything of the sort about FCPX? Pretty much every single person on this forum and others who you would classify as FCPX enthusiasts, are constantly talking about how easy it is to use.”
I, too, have never once heard anything else either. The only people that I have heard suggest anything similar were in fact those who haven’t seen more of X than maybe some screenshots, but certainly never actually used it. I also have a few years of teaching X (and another 5 years teaching 7 before that) under my belt at two different schools here that use both X and PPro. The speed that the students get up and running on X and have their first cut out is unparalleled. Primarily because its complexity is completely hidden from sight until needed (IF needed).
Not some comparatively intimidating, constantly in-your-face barrage of tabs tabs tabs hiding behind each other in an excessively button-riddled, cluttered, patchwork GUI. Something I also hear from every single trainer I know, of which there are many, spread across 6 countries and two continents in the same or a similar environment. To say that PPro is anywhere near as comprehensible, especially for anyone with no or little experience editing, is utterly ludicrous imho. I have only seen that happen when the person teaching X simply did not know the first thing about X or were just plain inept as a teacher.
[Andy Neil] “Wow, you must really have something against this editor. He went from inexperienced in film, to novice, to assistant editor as your replies have continued.”
I noticed that, too. :-))))
[Andy Neil] “You’re so shocked that experience has taken a backseat in the editing workflow for this film, but you seem to have no care for skill or talent or any of the other things that make an editor. Credits are the only measure by which you seem to judge Jan’s abilities. “
Apply that to directors and never mind that if everyone were actually to go by IMDB as a measure for anything, then we wouldn’t have a huge list of features to enjoy. Such as ones from Chris Nolan, Ben Affleck, George Clooney or even Alejandro González Iñárritu. How DARE someone give them their first break based on anything… just not IMDB. Tsk tsk… 😉
I guess companies like RED and ARRI really lucked out then, too. But I guess there were a plethora of Epic and Alexa experienced operators lined up around the block before the first features were shot with them? Exact same difference.
– RK
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Deutsch? Hier gibt es ein umfassendes FCP X Training für dich! -
[Michael Gissing] “That sort of motherhood statement is marketing and doesn’t stand a moment of scrutiny. An NLE has no impact on writing, casting, set design, costume, makeup etc. “
You’re not seriously suggesting that that is anywhere near what he meant to say with that, right??
😀
And I have yet to see a single project, let alone FEATURE, where the director didn’t play an active and integral part in the editing process. Whether he actually meant in the sense that he actually wanted to (or did) do it himself no one here can know and would be (as with certain other things here) pure conjecture. But even if he did e.g. do rough cuts… erm, so? Big… whoop…
– RK
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Deutsch? Hier gibt es ein umfassendes FCP X Training für dich! -
[Oliver Peters] “[Scott Witthaus] “So is it baloney or true? ”
It’s baloney if we are talking about impact on actual Hollywood.”
Not even the least bit baloney. He’s absolutely right from a purely technical POV.
[Oliver Peters] “But… how about AAFs, OMFs, EDLs, change lists, etc.? “
Yes, how about them? His claim was “with a Mac and the App Store” you’re “Hollywood” (which I take to mean you’re at least technically set up to produce a movie that would easily sell/be shown in Hollywood). So which of those CAN’T you cover with the App Store? Spoiler: none. But you know that, so I find that assertion rather disingenuous. Aside from the fact that I didn’t see anything in Focus’ list of apps that aren’t on the App Store, other than maybe LivePlay and a filter, so there you go. Scott is clearly correct.
And throwing NUKE of all things into the mix is the only thing “baloney”, since that is purely VFX and far from being some sort of requirement for making a “Hollywood” movie. But even then, it’s clearly only a matter of time before FUSION shows up in the App Store. Then even that is covered.
– RK
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Deutsch? Hier gibt es ein umfassendes FCP X Training für dich! -
[Simon Ubsdell] “But since you wanted to labour the point”
You didn’t actually just write that after a full 17 posts of your own on the subject, did you? 😀
[Simon Ubsdell] “A lot of feature film editing is actually problem solving of one kind or another and it’s experience that makes you better at it. That’s all I’m saying – I’m not sure why this is contentious.”
Maybe it’s simply that you have yet to explain why the obsession with the “feature film” part of it all is relevant? I don’t even know why “feature film” is even explicitly in that sentence, since that applies to ANY editing job imho. What is it in your mind that an editor that has edited any amount of narratives (for all we know very well), couldn’t possibly do when hit with a feature film? Whereby, again, “feature film” purely says something about its *length*, namely longer than 40 minutes. Nothing else. I don’t know of any somehow hugely unusual requirements that would need to be met other than great story-telling abilities (which you obviously couldn’t know if he has or not, experience or not). Aside from maybe needing extremely good organizational skills, which, as we know, the vast majority was already taken care of by the time FCP was even opened. And I don’t see how the amount of money or actor involved is any reflection or gauge of his abilities as an editor.
You yourself said that it’s a huge budget movie with a huge star in it. So either everyone involved was having (as you seem to want to imply) a “let’s gamble with a lot of money and some reputations!”-day (only by virtue of their choice of EDITOR?)… OR… there is a bunch of relevant information that neither you or any of us are privy to at this point. Namely information concerning the editor, his qualifications and/or the production process relating to the editing process, that would make the whole decision a completely sane one with no spectacular or curious undertones. Making the whole topic a classic and text-book mountain and molehill dispute, no?
I’ll personally go with the latter until proven guilty.
Maybe we should all read this first (which I am) and come back afterwards: https://itunes.apple.com/de/book/final-cut-pro-x-pro-workflow/id971472119?l=en&mt=11 🙂
– RK
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[Oliver Peters] “It’s baloney if we are talking about impact on actual Hollywood.”
That’s funny. Let’s be honest, Oliver. You and I know Avid could give a sh** about “impacting Hollywood”. They are there to move product. It’s more about the impact BECAUSE of Hollywood versus the impact ON Hollywood for Avid. That is what Avid is looking for, and the monopoly Avid has had on Hollywood serves them very well. News like Focus and the Premiere film is more a threat from an image point of view more than revenue.
[Oliver Peters] “And how long do they work on just learning to edit?”
I can usually get them up and running on X after 3 90 minute class sessions and the Lynda.com course (which is about 7 hours of material). After that, that class time is used for finer editing tips, color correction etc. I teach another separate class on concept and visual storytelling. That’s where X has been so much better as it allows me to focus on storytelling faster.
[Oliver Peters] “But, my main focus is teaching editing concepts, NOT teaching software prowess.”
Agreed. Anyone can learn how to operate software. Concept and story execution are another entire deal.
Scott Witthaus
Senior Editor/Post Production Supervisor
1708 Inc./Editorial
Professor, VCU Brandcenter -
[Robin S. Kurz] Aside from the fact that I didn’t see anything in Focus’ list of apps that aren’t on the App Store, other than maybe LivePlay and a filter, so there you go.
That’s a list Apple published. Let’s wait for the book.
– Andreas
Spherico
https://www.spherico.com/filmtools“He who fights with monsters should be careful lest he thereby
become a monster. And if thou gaze long into an abyss, the abyss will
also gaze into thee.” – Friedrich Nietzsche, Beyond Good and Evil -
[Andreas Kiel] “Let’s wait for the book.”
Erm… it’s out. 😉
https://itunes.apple.com/de/book/final-cut-pro-x-pro-workflow/id971472119?l=en&mt=11
– RK
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