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In-Action Story on FCPX and Focus
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[Oliver Peters] “Tony, I just don’t understand how you read my reply in a way that indicates I ever said I doubted what the director was saying “
I think it was when you wrote this
“Seriously? This is an Apple marketing piece. C’mon.”
To me this says, don’t take the article serious and since the article uses quotes from the director you are dismissing those quotes also.
OK, so now you can clarify, which part should I take seriously?
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[Scott Witthaus] “So is it baloney or true? “
It’s baloney if we are talking about impact on actual Hollywood. It’s true if we are talking about planting the seed and dream for general users.
[Scott Witthaus] “Should we ask what 3rd party or finishing options all these award winning movies used beyond MC?”
Valid argument. But… how about AAFs, OMFs, EDLs, change lists, etc.? I think the claims Avid makes for what you can do with the tool are different than the claims Apple makes.
[Scott Witthaus] “So basically you have a sample that are predisposed to track based editing. “
Yes, I admitted that. Until enough folks come up through high school knowing iMovie or FCP X, I don’t see that changing. The very high cost of Apple hardware is an impediment to these kids. We’re talking blue collar folks and veterans, not USC students or Full Sail students.
[Scott Witthaus] ” I teach 9 months out of the year to students who mostly have no experience in editorial and I find the opposite.”
And how long do they work on just learning to edit? Mine have 20-25 hours in a structured editing lab and the rest of the year they are on their own.
[Scott Witthaus] “That probably gets them ahead of the game and less confused. You can set that up pretty easily.”
Agreed. But no, I cannot set that up or require it. I can only suggest.
[Scott Witthaus] “High profile, but niche. Is there a reason you can’t teach MC?
“Not at all. It’s a logistical process having to do with checking out and managing dongles for all the workstations. I’m doing this class in a general digital media lab and not on gear that belongs to the film department. That unit has 4 workstations with Pr, 7 and X. Two also have MC, so they can continue with MC on their own if they want. Teaching them a track-based NLE is sufficient foundation to move forward. But, my main focus is teaching editing concepts, NOT teaching software prowess.
[Scott Witthaus] “No, this is an FCPX workflow story. How can it not be?”
Agree, so people shouldn’t interpret it as such. It’s Apple marketing, which is what I’ve said from the beginning.
– Oliver
Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com -
[tony west] “To me this says, don’t take the article serious and since the article uses quotes from the director you are dismissing those quotes also.
OK, so now you can clarify, which part should I take seriously?”I think you are getting wrapped around the axle and losing sight of the context. I never challenged the article’s accuracy or the quotes. To say otherwise is creating something that simply doesn’t exist.
That response above relates to my answer to Andy. The discussion boiled down to the fact that I felt efficiency was gained through the native workflow and he and you contended it was primarily through FCP X. You tied that to quotes in the article to which I pointed out it’s an Apple marketing piece, which has nothing to do with the quotes. Of course, it going to promote all things Apple and downplay other factors. And that’s a matter of picking the right quotes. Of course they’re true.
But is it the entire story? For example, if the film had been cut in Premiere but use the same native workflow, would there have been much difference? Given this team, sure, because of the preference for using FCP X. But given another team, not necessarily.
– Oliver
Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com -
[Simon Ubsdell] “What I think is definitely implicit here is a devaluing of the craft of editing at the highest level.”
[Simon Ubsdell] “But maybe FCP X is the turning point … maybe it’s the point at which directors start to cut their own material and the specialist editing discipline starts to die out. “
Admit it — Aindreas ghostwrote these paragraphs!
[Simon Ubsdell] “The trouble with cutting your own material – and this applies at all levels of editing – is that you rarely have enough distance from the creation of it to make suitably objective judgements and I’ve seen this on loads of features where the director got too close (often the issue with novice film-makers). This is something that you lose if the editor gets replaced …”
I wonder the same thing about cinematographers being too involved with color. The advent of digital grading and the convergence of grading and compositing (versus simple color timing from not all that long ago) created a new independent artistic position that increasing DP involvement might destroy.
Of course, many cinematographers would disagree with me.
For that matter, we could also talk about the transition from the camera department to editorial.
Interdepartmental lines are being blurred all over the place. Good for auteurs, bad for specialist independence… but does it mean for movies?
Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
@keenlive | RenderBreak [blog] | Profile [LinkedIn] -
[tony west] ““What I love about Final Cut Pro X is that it allowed me to be involved with, and in control of, every aspect of making our film.””
That quote jumped out at me too.
[tony west] “What does that statement mean to you?”
Is the editor a monkey on the keyboard, a “human user interface” that the director controls instead of a keyboard?
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[tony west] ““What I love about Final Cut Pro X is that it allowed me to be involved with, and in control of, every aspect of making our film.””
[Richard Herd] “That quote jumped out at me too.”Me too. That sort of motherhood statement is marketing and doesn’t stand a moment of scrutiny. An NLE has no impact on writing, casting, set design, costume, makeup etc. It might play a tiny part in camera choice but not really unless the editor controls the choices of a DP. But it shouldn’t.
Then the NLE has its part to play but only if it works with the whole backend. VFX, sound design, score, grade & finish. X doesn’t control that unless it lacked the basic tools to get the edit out of the box and into a collaborative workflow. That isn’t a matter of control. The fact that X can, with third party help, reliably do that means it is like other NLEs and it no longer hinders that workflow. To me that is the real progress to brag about here. X is reliable in a collaborative workflow.
Marketing writers do need to acknowledge the actual role any piece of hardware or software makes in a film. Controlling EVERY aspect? Get real.
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[Oliver Peters] “I think you are getting wrapped around the axle and losing sight of the context. I never challenged the article’s accuracy”
I’m sorry, from the axle it looked like you were kind of dismissing the article when you called it this
“A nice article, but a HUGE puff piece.”
If you are saying the article is accurate then I guess we agree : )
[Oliver Peters] “But is it the entire story?”
No it’s not, the story is that somebody chose X over AVID and Pr for a large budget Hollywood film. Something many didn’t see happening early on.
Now the goal post must be moved to somebody getting an Oscar cutting on it, and when that happens, somebody will say……………it only has one ; p
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[Richard Herd] ”
Is the editor a monkey on the keyboard, a “human user interface” that the director controls instead of a keyboard?”Had to laugh at this. For some directors and producers, this is absolutely the mindset. Sadly, it’s an attitude that exists at all levels. One where, some people don’t see their fellow contributors on a project as craftspeople at all; actors are just childlike people who are good at lying, camera operators just point the camera where you tell to and press record, voice over artists are just guys with deep voices, the list goes on. To me, it’s an especially odd mindset for a filmmaker to have, since filmmaking is (or should be) such a collaborative process.
Shawn
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[Richard Herd] “Is the editor a monkey on the keyboard, a “human user interface” that the director controls instead of a keyboard?”
hahaha
I guess we will have to wait for the book to find out my brother : )
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[tony west] “I’m sorry, from the axle it looked like you were kind of dismissing the article when you called it this
“A nice article, but a HUGE puff piece.” “Merely reacting to the cheerleading tone. Goes against the grain.
[tony west] “Now the goal post must be moved to somebody getting an Oscar cutting on it, and when that happens, somebody will say……………it only has one ; p”
Sure.
– Oliver
Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com
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