Importing 4K 4096 × 2160 (from a 1DC) to FCP as ProRes 422 1080x1920p?

[Paul Figgiani]

Alyssa,

You’re correct – your 4K footage is not 16:9. The aspect ratio is 1.9:1 as opposed to 1.78:1 (1080p).

Have a look at this frame. The project resolution is 1920×1080. The light gray clip is 4096×2160 drooped into the 1080p project and is letterboxed.

In this case yo can rescale the image to “fit” the 16×9 frame. Or – you can leave it letterboxed. Of course you can crop the letterbox bars – but that will change the frame size.

Bottom line try dropping the imported footage into a 1080p project and see how it goes …

-paul.

[Jeremy Garchow]

What NLE is the editor using?

[Alyssa Ryvers]

Jeremy — FCPX, which is why I’ve been using it for import.

Paul — OMG — so there is really no other way for me to deal with this other than cropping the sides of the image…

Yes, when I import the footage into the 1080p project it renders it to 1080 letterboxed.

Obviously, I’d like to process the file as few times as possible, so as not to incur unnecessary loss.

How do you suggest I import and convert the footage to ProRes 422 1080p — cropped, I guess… — in the least lossy way possible?

Re: cropping — on second thought, maybe I should leave the file letterboxed, so that the editor can make the decisions re: how he wants it cropped on a case-by-case basis?

Also, the 1DC records its files in 4G increments. How do you suggest I manage that?

Best,

Alyssa

[Jeremy Garchow]

If your editor is using FCPX, there’s no reason to compress the footage down to 1080p, simply use the 4k footage in a 1080 timeline like Paul suggests.

Also, as Paul suggests, you have two options, either fill the screen and let the left and right edge crop, or work with the footage slightly letterboxed.

Also, if you use the 4k image in a 1080 timeline it will allow a lot of reframing in post.

If you optimize the media, it will make the media ProRes (right click the media, choose Transcode Media and click Optimize).

Be prepared for very large files, which means you will have to have the proper amount of storage.

[Alyssa Ryvers] “Also, the 1DC records its files in 4G increments. How do you suggest I manage that?”

You will have to work with the footage in chunks. This isn’t that big of a deal.

Jeremy

[Alyssa Ryvers]

Thanks, Jeremy 🙂

The editor has asked that all the files we give him are ProRes 422 1080p —

Given that, and given what you and Paul are saying — should I, or should I not, be optimizing to ProRes 422 on import? Is there any reason not to optimize the media?

In terms of my doing rough assemblies on my machine, which isn’t the newest, should I be making a proxy file — can I be working with proxy files, and when the editor opens up the session he can reliably work with the non-proxy version, or would my using proxies on my end open up the potential for problems…

Maybe I don’t need to use proxies, in your estimation? I’m working on a MacBook Pro 2.53 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo w/ 8G RAM on OS 10.6.8

In terms of organizing the files — I was thinking about importing the multiple files of each take into separate events — what do you think? How would you go about organizing this?

Best,

Alyssa

[Jeremy Garchow]

[Alyssa Ryvers] “The editor has asked that all the files we give him are ProRes 422 1080p –“

Then you are going to have to transcode using Compressor. You should double check and make sure that they can’t just work with the 4k files. It will take more storage, but will ultimately be more flexible.

[Alyssa Ryvers] “Given that, and given what you and Paul are saying — should I, or should I not, be optimizing to ProRes 422 on import? Is there any reason not to optimize the media?”

If you need to transcode to 1080p before the edit, then you shouldn’t optimize, rather you should just transcode the original 4k material.

[Alyssa Ryvers] “In terms of my doing rough assemblies on my machine, which isn’t the newest, should I be making a proxy file — can I be working with proxy files, and when the editor opens up the session he can reliably work with the non-proxy version, or would my using proxies on my end open up the potential for problems…”

You first have to decide which set of maser files you are going to be working from. If they really need 1080 ProRes files, then you should only make rough assemblies from those. The alternative, is to make Proxy files (like you say) and edit from those. Those will be half size ProRes Proxy files. At the end, you can simply flip the appropriate switch and FCPX will automatically connect back to the 4k files. This will only work if you use the original 4k files. If you decide to pre transcode the files down to 1080p first before the edit, you will not reconnect back to the 4k files. Hope that makes sense.

[Alyssa Ryvers] “Maybe I don’t need to use proxies, in your estimation? I’m working on a MacBook Pro 2.53 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo w/ 8G RAM on OS 10.6.8”

What type of hard drive? My guess is that machine will need to use Proxies for 4k material.

[Alyssa Ryvers] “In terms of organizing the files — I was thinking about importing the multiple files of each take into separate events — what do you think? How would you go about organizing this?”

I tend to try and put all footage in one Event and use Keywords and tagging to organize. Having related footage spread out across a lot of Events can get cumbersome. I don’t know what your material is exactly, so it’s hard to give a lot of advice on how to organize it. I also am using FCP 10.1, so I have Libraries instead of multiple and separate Events. This is what my current Event structure look like in a Library I am working in today:

Jeremy

[Nikolas Bäurle]

It’s always a good idea to optimise, editing will be much smoother. optimising won’t scale the footage down to 1080p, it simply converts it to ProRes, which can have any size you want

Why does the editor need 1080p? It would make more sense, and less transcoding, to leave them in 4k and edit in a 1080p timeline.

With your setup you should use proxies.

“Always look on the bright side of life” – Monty Python

[Alyssa Ryvers]

Thanks, guys 🙂

So…the plan is to find out whether the picture editor would like to work with the larger size ProRes 422 files, or if he needs me to compress to 1080p right off the bat.

We’re going to be using other footage not shot at 4K (shot at 1080p, and some archival footage which will be who knows what) — will Final Cut handle different frame sizes in its Event Library, all being used in the same 1080p project, or might that be an argument to transcode everything to 1080p right away?

Re: Proxies: Assuming we’re going to be using a mix of frame sizes, including 4K, but all ProRes 422, if I use Proxies for my rough assemblies, will the picture editor be able to easily continue from where I left off without using proxies? If I need to work on an edit he does without proxies, will I be able to link back up to the proxy versions fairly easily — or is that workflow a potential prescription for the introduction of errors? I found a radio button under Preferences>Playback that appears to allow one to toggle between “use proxy media” and “use original or optimized media” — is switching between the two modes as simple as that?

BTW — what is ProRes 422 (HQ)? I notice it as an option under custom audio settings when I create a new project — is this referring solely to the audio being played back? processed? in high quality, or the video? or both?

Best,

Alyssa

[Nikolas Bäurle]

Switching between proxy and original is really as simple as that.

ProRes 422 HQ is a better video quality than 422, but you won’t see much of a difference.

“Always look on the bright side of life” – Monty Python

[Nikolas Bäurle]

X handles different sizes perfectly fine. I personally prefer leaving footage in its original size when mixing and resize in the timeline as needed. I would leave the 4k as is, since you then have the option of re-framing without loosing quality in a 1080p timeline. If you convert it to 1080p you won’t have that option without loosing quality. I just got my Blackmagic 4k a few weeks ago, and its so nice to be able to re frame and get some CUs from medium wide shots. very practical when you can’t get too close to the subject.

“Always look on the bright side of life” – Monty Python