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Importing 4K 4096 × 2160 (from a 1DC) to FCP as ProRes 422 1080x1920p?
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[Alyssa Ryvers] “We’re going to be using other footage not shot at 4K (shot at 1080p, and some archival footage which will be who knows what) — will Final Cut handle different frame sizes in its Event Library, all being used in the same 1080p project, or might that be an argument to transcode everything to 1080p right away?”
In my opinion, there’s no reason to down covert the 4k to 1080p. I would use the 4k footage in a 1080 timeline (I do this almost daily).
[Alyssa Ryvers] “Re: Proxies: Assuming we’re going to be using a mix of frame sizes, including 4K, but all ProRes 422, if I use Proxies for my rough assemblies, will the picture editor be able to easily continue from where I left off without using proxies?”
As long as you gave made Proxies from the original material, and the editor has the same media, you will be fine. If you start to use different subsets of media, it won’t work as well.
Moving from original/optimized to Proxy and back is literally a flip of a switch.
[Alyssa Ryvers] “BTW — what is ProRes 422 (HQ)? I notice it as an option under custom audio settings when I create a new project — is this referring solely to the audio being played back? processed? in high quality, or the video? or both?”
That is the render format of the timeline. I’d stick with regular ProRes for now. HQ is good for footage that is acquired at 10bits or higher.
Jeremy
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If you need to batch-process a bunch of camera files to deliver ProRes422 1080p, I suggest you use DaVinci Resolve. Even the free version will do this.
– Oliver
Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com -
[Oliver Peters] “f you need to batch-process a bunch of ca”
Actually I prefer the latest version of Compressor for this task over Resolve.
gary adcock
Studio37Post and Production Workflow Consultant
Production and Post Stereographer
Chicago, ILFollow my blog at https://www.garyadcock.com
Or follow me on Twitter
@garyadcock -
[gary adcock] “Actually I prefer the latest version of Compressor for this task over Resolve.”
Is it as fast on a single machine?
– Oliver
Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com -
[Oliver Peters] “Is it as fast on a single machine?”
depends on the storage when you are moving big files.
I have been converting 4K in to ProResHQ for “offlines” in real time as a test between 2 – Lacie LBDv2 units.
IMHO keeping rather than trimming the extra 256px from the 4096 width to make a 1080 file can lower the quality of file compression on any platform. Compression math is developed around specific SMPTE frame raster sizes.
gary adcock
Studio37Post and Production Workflow Consultant
Production and Post Stereographer
Chicago, ILFollow my blog at https://www.garyadcock.com
Or follow me on Twitter
@garyadcock -
Gary — do I understand correctly that you’re recommending that I re-size to 1080p before starting the edit?
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[Alyssa Ryvers] “do I understand correctly that you’re recommending that I re-size to 1080p before starting the edit?”
Alyssa, you need to talk to your editor before you make any decisions, some of the steps you are taking will seriously affect the post process. You are trying to crowdsource knowledge from people that are not doing the post and guessing at solutions for you.
ALL video compression engines are based on the standard SMPTE frame sizes, and since 4K currently considered as 2 frame sizes the 4096×2160 you are working with (4K DCI) or the more universal 3840×2160 (QuadHD) which is exactly 4x the pixels of the 1920×1080 HD frame.
QuadHD is recommended for a couple of reasons.
Not all 4K displays can show the 4096 pixels but all can show 3840px, and secondly that extras 256px create unwanted artifice when downscaling, reducing quality when creating online or other compressed content.What your editor needs should be solely their decision.
While JG points out that he cuts 4K in a 1080 timeline, he assumes that you ability to handle that much data in post and yet that alone may be beyond the available editing hardware and facility capabilities,gary adcock
Studio37Post and Production Workflow Consultant
Production and Post Stereographer
Chicago, ILFollow my blog at https://www.garyadcock.com
Or follow me on Twitter
@garyadcock -
Hi Gary,
Not to worry that I will make artistic decisions that I shouldn’t be; I’ve been a sound engineer +20 years (a good deal of which has been in the film industry), and I’m very technical. I have a much better understanding of the issues surrounding 4K video workflow thanks to this thread — which was the point of my question — not to make any final decisions regarding workflow.
[gary adcock] IMHO keeping rather than trimming the extra 256px from the 4096 width to make a 1080 file can lower the quality of file compression on any platform. Compression math is developed around specific SMPTE frame raster sizes.
What I was asking / hoping for was if you’d clarify the above comment — are you saying there is something lossy about leaving the file as 4096 × 2160 in FCP while cutting in a 1080p timeline…? That seemed to me the least lossy suggestion so far…
Best,
Alyssa
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[Alyssa Ryvers] “Not to worry that I will make artistic decisions that I shouldn’t be;”
We are not talking about artistic, these points are about technical issues.
“are you saying there is something lossy about leaving the file as 4096 × 2160 in FCP while cutting in a 1080p timeline”
1) The bandwidth difference between 4K ProRes and 1080 ProRes is more data to handle.
You are not going to cut 4K ProRes files easily from a Firewire or eSata drive and that is going to be the biggest issue to deal with.2) IF you have to scale the content to 1080 before the edit.
YES it will.gary adcock
Studio37Post and Production Workflow Consultant
Production and Post Stereographer
Chicago, ILFollow my blog at https://www.garyadcock.com
Or follow me on Twitter
@garyadcock -
OK — so leaving the 4K file in the project while cutting in a 1080p project is not lossy. Thank you.
[gary adcock] We are not talking about artistic, these points are about technical issues.
I beg to differ. Doing a universal crop on both sides of my 4096 x 2160 footage to fit a 1080p frame, rather than the editor and I making a decision on how we’re going to crop each shot on a case by case basis, WOULD be an artistic decision.
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