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iMac Pro or next year’s Mac Pro?
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[Shane Ross] “But only want ProRes.”
That was kinda my point, Shane.
The digital delivery services are kinda collapsing this into a non-issue.
The Frame.io or Vimeo Pro or Extreme Reach (or whatever) services should be handling this now.
Every one of them does an internal capture and serves out a variety of transcodes from low res-low bitrate to essentially uncompressed – depending only on the available Rez of the initial delivery upload.
It seems to me the need to even *think* about delivery codec is rapidly diminishing.
For me it’s gone away totally.
I’d expect that to spread to all levels of production pretty quickly simply because it’s work better suited to machine learning than human choice.
(Given this target playback – reencode this way – if enough resolution isn’t available – warn the client.)
Doesn’t seem that hard from where we are now.
Creator of XinTwo – https://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery. -
[Bouke Vahl] “If you use Adobe stuff, it’s a simple plugin that catches the uncompressed video down the pipeline, and uses FFmpeg to output ProRes.”
Yup, and that ProRes file will get kicked back by QC as an “incorrect encode.” It’s not licensed by Apple, so several components that make is a “correct encode” are missing. What? I don’t know, I’m not an engineer. But the engineers say “sorry, this is wrong, please provide a correct encode” so…
The only apps ProRes on Windows is licensed for are ultra high end systems.
Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def -
[Bill Davis] “It seems to me the need to even *think* about delivery codec is rapidly diminishing. “
If all one is required to do is deliver a simple file to Frame or Vimeo or YouTube* then, yes, that’s pretty dead simple these days. If one is delivering to Hulu or Amazon or Netflix or HBO or Vudu or NBC or Discovery or Snapchat or a DCP, etc., then just using any old file won’t suffice because these companies handle and deliver their own content internally (or via their own sub-contractors). One delivers a master file(s) to their specs and then they do all the transcodes to make all the different versions they need.
*If you deliver to YouTube’s paid streaming service then you have to adhere to their delivery specs same as you would for delivering to other streaming services like Amazon or Netflix.
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[Andrew Kimery] “If one is delivering to Hulu or Amazon or Netflix or HBO or Vudu or NBC or Discovery or Snapchat or a DCP, etc., then just using any old file won’t suffice because these companies handle and deliver their own content internally (or via their own sub-contractors). One delivers a master file(s) to their specs and then they do all the transcodes to make all the different versions they need.”
Yep.
Excellent description of the problem.Multiple organizations all doing basically the same thing in different ways “because that’s the way we’ve traditionally done it.”
I’m just asking WHY. What’s the point?
Again, this driven by my learning 15 years ago that the production guys at the local network affiliate weren’t following their OWN submission standards – because it was unnecessary and inefficient.
They wanted their paying clients to complicate things they had simplified internally.
FWIW.
Creator of XinTwo – https://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery. -
[Bouke Vahl] “If you use Adobe stuff, it’s a simple plugin that catches the uncompressed video down the pipeline, and uses FFmpeg to output ProRes.
“I know about the Aftercodecs plugin but is there another? Aftercodecs only works in AE.
I Hate Television. I Hate It As Much As Peanuts. But I Can’t Stop Eating Peanuts.
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[Bill Davis] “Multiple organizations all doing basically the same thing in different ways “because that’s the way we’ve traditionally done it.”
I’m just asking WHY. What’s the point? “
Quality control, automation, and simplicity.
There are tons of variables to consider when you make an h264 movie – profile, level, bit rate, VBR or constant, 1 or 2 pass, key frame distance, multiplexing, audio format/bit rate, etc… Each one can affect the overall quality of the file.
With ProRes and DNxHD/HR, that complexity disappears. It’s easier for an organization to accept one codec in very specific frame sized/frame rates and transcode that file to fit their systems than design their system to accept a 100 possible deliverables, which may or may not be good quality.
Plus, if an organization knows it will be getting a 1080p 23.976 ProRes file but will need an SD, 720p, and 1080p streaming files for their playback system, they can automate those transcodes using software from companies like Telestream.
And because they control the transcodes they can guarantee the quality of them, so clients don’t come to them wanting to know why their files look bad on their website. Plus, recompressing ProRes or DNxHD to a delivery codec like MPEG or h264 isn’t an issue like it is if they were given h264 files.
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Michael Hancock
Editor -
[Shane Ross] “The only apps ProRes on Windows is licensed for are ultra high end systems.”
Scratch does ProRes on Windows and can be had for $650 a year, but if you’re willing to spend that just to make ProRes you’d do better to buy a Mac Mini and use it as a transcode station. So it’s not super expensive, but is overkill for a simple transcode.
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Michael Hancock
Editor -
[Bill Davis] “I’m just asking WHY. What’s the point? “
Because Snapchat doesn’t want a DCP, HBO doesn’t want a vertical video and Netflix thinks it can deliver superior quality and performance to its customers by handling encoding and distribution inself rather than ‘rebranding’ a YouTube/Frame.io/Vimeo stream and sending that to your house when you fire up the Netflix app?
[Bill Davis] “Multiple organizations all doing basically the same thing in different ways “because that’s the way we’ve traditionally done it.””
You mean like Frame.io, Vimeo, YouTube, Whipster, Kollaborate, Media Silo, etc.? ????
Even the new companies you mention are part of the ‘problem’ because you must deliver files to their servers and their servers alone. By that I mean, my YouTube, Vimeo and Frame.io accounts aren’t interlinked and interchangeable. I can’t ‘drag’ a video from Vimeo over to Frame.io.
Having been on the content receiving side, not just the creation and send to the client side, it’s pretty obvious that a one-size-fits-all solution isn’t practical.
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[Bill Davis] “I’m just asking WHY. What’s the point? “
Why? Talk to them. It’s below our pay grade. Why do some networks want embedded closed captioning, while others want sidecar SRT files?
And I’m not entirely sure about your description of file delivery services. If I upload to a service, it gives the user the option to download one of their transcoded versions and/or the original. So if I upload a ProRes master, they’ll generate MP4 viewing files at several resolutions. Depending on the service, I can download one of the MP4s or the original ProRes. But if my requirement is an MPEG2 or Avid DNxHD in an MXF wrapper, I don’t believe the service will generate that from the ProRes master. Is your experience different?
– Oliver
Oliver Peters – oliverpeters.com
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[Andrew Kimery] “By that I mean, my YouTube, Vimeo and Frame.io accounts aren’t interlinked and interchangeable. “
Check again.
Frame.io and Vimeo Pro appear to be co-located and linked.
That’s based on my current workflow where I can mirror from FiO to VimPro with a single click and the file appears instantly.
The only delay is when the flag hits to Vimeo to further process the server version already in storage – their side kicks in to do additional transcodes since those files will face clients and viewers who need differing versions that FiO doesn’t need to function.
That’s my point.
Producer exports a reference file. The distribution services handles the individual customer needs.
This is what we’ve done in the commercials area for a years now. Master to Extreme Reach or equivalent – they do the rest.
That model will win in the long run for everything distributed, IMO.
Time will tell.
Creator of XinTwo – https://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery.
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