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Imac and final cut pro 5.1 hd editing HDv Mistake ?
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thanks again for the other reply .I guess heres where i am torn apart it seems so far that
editing on the pc with a 3 ghz dual core in hdv is very smooth so far and thats not what i am getting on the Mac .As you stated in your post sticky editing is a real pain in the butt !
On the other hand I am really impressed with the final cut work flo and how all the programs in the package work together and address hdv editing too ! I just wish i knew if its the imac
that cant handle it or i am doing somthing wrong .like maybe a setting that would make my preview smoother .when you read about final cut on the apple web site .they made it sound as if it did not matter how taxing your workflo was in the sence that final cut would just scale back on quality in the preview s to keep up ( Dynamic window resizing rt ) this is what I am not sure if i am getting .or is the stutter in playback normal . cause when i apply a filter
to the video I cant get any sence of timming this way ! -
It is possible to run OS X off of a F/W drive(I think it’s still possible on the intelmacs). I am not sure this will really be a useable scenario over the long run however. THere are just so many factors in making a system perform and HDV makes it even more complicated. I have seen several PC users build new dualcore AMD setups that have the same problem with HDV.
Now when you played off the internal drive it was better but still stuttering or in other words, dropping frames? How much space is free on the HD? When SATA drives fill up, they slow down. 1.5 gigs of ram should be plenty just to play back a single clip on the timeline.
One final thought…did you set the timeline up correctly by choosing the right preset? This is the life and death of fcp in getting the setup to match the format.
-gl
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Ok ill try to give more detail …but first ill anser your other questions: I would say it was like a stutter not dropping frames .Theres plenty of room on the internal HD .its a new computer and it has a 250 gig internal of which is just the OS and now final cut .So Id say at least 150 gigs left . I was only testing with some short clips captured with the sony z1
maybe a few clips that were 200 mbs in size .heres what happens …after I load a clip on the timeline it plays back fine if i than put a few more on the line everything is still ok after
i have maybe 4 or 5 clips online with lets say just dissolves at each one it plays still ok
but as the line gets longer and I try to move around on the timeline by pulling the playhead
back and forth using the mouse I start to feel that its not keeping up with my movements and the playhead falls behinde my mouse than as I add a filter to one of the clips like a blur or somthing this lagging gets worse .if I use the other controls to play the whole timeline to review my work or to get a sence of timming as the playhead reaches the clip with the filter
it plays , than stops than plays again somtimes it plays through and somtimes it stops a few more times like it just cant make it through ,So on my preview looking at the clip with the filter all i see is a still of my work with no feeling on how the filter is playing out .Now
i know people always say you have to read the books but wow this thing came with like 4 big books just for final cut .so I admit I just could not resist and jumped in LOL ,anyway
I found it to be very close to the same as adobe premier so i was feeling at home .I am not sure what choices to pick on the top menu as to the render with the different colored lines . I am just trying to get the play of the preview to go more smooth so i can move along and have a feel about the video playback . I assume my presets are ok cause when i drop a clip down it does not need to render ,what colors should i see after i lay down a filter ..just to have it preview smoothly ? just to make a comparsion when i do this on the pc side with adobe premier and i move the mouse around the video keeps up with out any problems .on the i mac I have to stop and wait for it to catch up sort of say . last thing is its not the way i am useing the mouse cause when i use the slider bar it does the same thing pretty much ..kind of gets hung up as it passes over fx s and filters than it moves
again but it just catches up and kind of passes over the hard to play video with out me seeing it … any way sorry if i was long winded ,,,, -
As everyone else has said USB 2.0 is no use for editing despite it’s theoretical speed. HDV is VERY processor intensive the fact that your clips play back fine and then don’t when you apply a filter suggests that the CPU can’t handle the dynamic RT, providing you have set dynamic RT to be on. Fact is that an iMac is not the best system to be editing HDV on, a used dual G5 2.0 would have cost the same and edited much faster.
Having said that I regularly edit HDV on my 20″ iMac G5 2.0 at home, it’s very slow but once you know the limitations it does work, but forget any RT playback of filters.
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[supervideo] “cause when i apply a filter
to the video I cant get any sence of timming this way !”When you apply a filter you’ll lose all RT on the iMac.
As others have stated, lose the USB drive. Yes it’s a Sata inside a USB 2 box, but it’s the USB connection that’s slowing you down.
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
https://www.biscardicreative.comDirector, “The Rough Cut”
https://www.theroughcutmovie.comNow Posting “Good Eats” in HD for the Food Network
“I reject your reality and substitute my own!” – Adam Savage, Mythbusters
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[reel2reel] “Really? That’s funny, b/c I was just playing back HDV at an Apple Dealer on a 17″ and it was smooth as could be. Not one dropped frame.”
Sure, for just playback, that will be fine. For full time editing, very very slow.
[reel2reel] ”
Isn’t the Core Duo actually 2-processors on one chip?”I think they are, but they are laptop processors, not desktop processors. Compared to what the desktops can so, especially with enhanced graphics cards and very fast external harddrive arrays, there’s no comparison between the Core Duo and true desktop machines like the latest G5’s.
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
https://www.biscardicreative.comDirector, “The Rough Cut”
https://www.theroughcutmovie.comNow Posting “Good Eats” in HD for the Food Network
“I reject your reality and substitute my own!” – Adam Savage, Mythbusters
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[supervideo] “Theres plenty of room on the internal HD .its a new computer and it has a 250 gig internal of which is just the OS and now final cut .So Id say at least 150 gigs left . I was only testing with some short clips captured with the sony z1”
You can’t use the internal drive for video capture / playback as you will not get consistent playback off a single internal drive that runs the OS, Software and media. You MUST use a separate media drive for editing with Final Cut Pro. Add to all of that, your internal drive is probably a 5400 RPM drive, which is not sufficient for constant video editing.
[supervideo] “t plays , than stops than plays again somtimes it plays through and somtimes it stops a few more times like it just cant make it through ,So on my preview looking at the clip with the filter all i see is a still of my work with no feeling on how the filter is playing out”
If you’re applying filters and trying to use Dynamic RT to playback the video, the iMac won’t be able to do that with HDV.
[supervideo] “Now
i know people always say you have to read the books but wow this thing came with like 4 big books just for final cut .so I admit I just could not resist and jumped in LOL ,”There are plenty of good books that take you through tutorials of how to use FCP including one of the books that came with the product. I would strongly suggest you do some reading in there. You’re guessing that the software is going to behave one way on your iMac without truly reading up on the specifications truly required for video editing with the product.
[supervideo] “I am not sure what choices to pick on the top menu as to the render with the different colored lines . I am just trying to get the play of the preview to go more smooth so i can move along and have a feel about the video playback”
Read the manual, go through the tutorials and you’ll understand what those colors mean. If you’re applying filters you will not have smooth playback. If you’re using the internal drive, you will not have smooth playback. If you’re using a USB device for media storage, you will not have smooth playback.
[supervideo] “I assume my presets are ok cause when i drop a clip down it does not need to render ,what colors should i see after i lay down a filter ..just to have it preview smoothly”
The color depends on the filter, your machine, and the speed of your media storage array.
[supervideo] “just to make a comparsion when i do this on the pc side with adobe premier and i move the mouse around the video keeps up with out any problems .on the i mac I have to stop and wait for it to catch up sort of say .”
Again, if you’re using a desktop on the PC side and the iMac on the Mac side, you’re comparing a laptop to a desktop machine. Way too many variables to determine what the difference is, but certainly the USB device is hurting your playback on the Mac as is the iMac itself.
[supervideo] “.kind of gets hung up as it passes over fx s and filters than it moves
again but it just catches up and kind of passes over the hard to play video with out me seeing it .”That’s because you’re in Dynamic RT and the iMac can’t support that. Switch to Safe RT and that will speed up your mousing over.
I have to say, you’re really just talking about the speed of the interface compared to the speed of the interface on the PC. If you want a very fast editing system, I’ll say again, you bought the wrong machine. The iMac is really good for DV. Any other format will suffer on that machine and that’s just the way it is. It’s a very limited machine made for consumer use and it screams through iMovie, iDVD, iTunes, Safari, Mail, etc…., not professional editing.
So referring to the title of this thread. Yes, you made a mistake.
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
https://www.biscardicreative.comDirector, “The Rough Cut”
https://www.theroughcutmovie.comNow Posting “Good Eats” in HD for the Food Network
“I reject your reality and substitute my own!” – Adam Savage, Mythbusters
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I understand all your points and thank you for taking the time to anser ,,,,
but as one final question : and this really bothers me ,if you go to the Apple web site and read what the requirments are as stated by Apple .The Imac not only meets all of them but also exceeds most of them .So there is no reason why final cut should not work exactly as the features stated .I did research all this on thier web site before I bought the Imac .you would think that a company that makes the hardware and the software for thier own boxes should know what thier talking about .and I should be able to trust what they say .if thats not the case than maybe they should just stick to making Ipods ! on the other hand if anyone
could point out where the Imac does not meet what Apple states it needs to run HD in final cut pro 5.1 .I would accept that with no problems .But i cant find one thing . -
I was asking this before ..but ill say it again if the Hard drive is the big problem .
Than can i Install OSX to the external hard drive along with final cut and boot from there .
wipe clean the internal 250 gig drive which is 7200rpm and use that as my video drive .
can this be done and would it not also prove if the HD was the big problem too … -
Run OS X from an external USB drive? May be possible but I wouldn’t trust it.
Lose the USB external drive completely. With all due respect to Walter, an intel duo imac can certainly edit HDV. I have tested this configuration before. And since he’s only testing a few clips and not edit a 30 hr doc, it should perform fine.
Do yourself a favor, set your Easy Setup to the appropriate HDV setting. Then start a new sequence and edit your HDV clips into this new sequence and see id it works any better.
You said you have 1.5 gig of RAM. I believe having equal amount of ram (2×512 or 1x1gig sticks) gives the BEST performance.
Try these tips and see.
Chi-Ho Lee
Film & Video Editor
Apple Certified Final Cut Pro Trainer
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