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Hyperdeck shuttle my views
Hello
I recently bought the Hyperdeck shuttle to use as a field recorder for my Sony V1 camera – unfortunately whilst the conceptof the shuttleis good – itis a seriously limited device that really has a sole purpose of shooting short clips of uncompressed video in a studio for special post-production effects (e.g, compositing) other than that use it is going to be handicapped by a number of incomprehensible limitations:
The design and concept is really cool and I am enjoying using it where possible – however the recording space on the SSD disks is limited due to the large file sizes of video shot – even using the DNxHD codec I am not even getting an hour of recording on a 120 Gb drive.
SSD’s are expensive so it is not economically viuable to carry 10 of these into the field – so tapes are more practical.I ownder how feasible it would be for BM to release a patch that would allow for AVCHD (or similar) recording – even something a bit more compressed like HDV would allow for longer recording times on the SSD drives.
So currently unless you have a large number of SSD’s the device is limited in a uncontrolled environment.
Even with a large number of SSD’s transferring 120GB of data from each tape to an editing bay would be time consuming and edit drives will fill up very quickly.Why SDI?
None of the cameras in the Hyperdeck promotional images on the BM website even come with SDI connectors – but a number of them would have firewire – what is wrong with firewire?File system compatibility for Windows users – BM should license the Apple file system software convertor for Win7 from Media4 and package it with the product.
After spending $350 on the device it is just plain annoying to find out that you have to buy additional software for another $50 in orderto to make the device usable with Win7
This does not make for happy clients.
Especially since this ‘feature’ is not advertised on the box.So how cost effective is this device – well…after buying the shuttle for $345 – you still need buy the SS disks (a single 120 Gb SSD goes for approx $150)
Then Windows users need the Win 7 file system software for another $50
FInally a 2.5″ docking station is requird to transfer the files from the SSD’s to the edit bay – preferably a USB 3 compatible docking station this is aother +$100So suddenly the perceived cost benefits of the Hyperdeck shuttle are all negated and the buyer starts to think they would have been better served buying a Sony / Maxell field recorder instead as there are no hidden costs and the final price would have been better and the buyer would have a lot more recording capacity.
And lastly another $100 for the mounting plate – a flat piece of steel with a few holes drilled in it.
Surely BM is not that desperate for revenue that this has to be sold seperately?
Apparently they are.So …
The concept of the device is great and the potential value and possible use-cases could be endless – however BM have severly compromised the effectiveness of this product with (space hungry recording formats) and all the well hidden additional requirements and extra costs.The overall experience leaves a slightly bitter taste in the mouth of the client as the usefulness of the device diminishes.
Unless the shuttle is aimed specificaly at users of larger more broadcast level camera’s and specifically for studio use (green screen shoots) it is a fairly limited device and in hindsight not suited to many outside shoot environments nor is it a serious contender to more effective field recorders available.
I was a big fan of the BM product set – but this philosophy of all the addtional extras required just to get the product to work (especially for Windows users) means I am going to be a lot more wary of BM products and their inherent limitations going forward and will likely buy similar products from other vendors rather than from
BM.Regards
NeilNeil
Effective Video
http://www.effectivevideo.co.za -
25 Replies
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Thank you very much, Mr. Adamson for your review. I was thinking many of the same things about those products. I had the same Mac/PC issues with my AJA KiPro recorder, but it offers much more manageable compression codecs, and provides an extremely handy variety of transcoding and conversion and connector input/output options.
And for single camera recording, I have found my Panasonic AG-HMR10, even at $1000 higher price to be more convenient and more economical to use. Now, if BMD offers some more “real-world” compression and codec options (as you suggest) it will be a very compelling product.
I fully expect the price of SSD to drop quite significantly as the price of semiconductor memory continues its historic $/GB decline, as well as SSDs slowly overtake rotating mechanical drives in everyday use. So the price of the media I believe is only an early-adopter issue.
I agree that BMD has a rather incomprehensible pricing philosophy. On one hand they make some amazing products with killer features (granted, not necessarily all available on first release), at remarkable prices. But OTOH, some of their products and accessories seem unbelievably overpriced by comparison. Almost like the big-ticket items are “loss-leaders” and they make it back selling accessories.
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Remember that the KiPro records ProRes (and now DNx). The original poster points out that the BMD device records DNx. As these two codecs are very similar, these devices have parity there.
Personally, I do not understand wanting an AVCHD codec on a device such as this. Almost all devices such as this – KiPro, Atmos, Sound Devices – are trying to solve the problem of good cameras with not so good codecs. If I want AVCHD, I imagine there are lots of pretty good cameras with that codec already. Not much of a market in my mind.
Just an opinion.
Jef
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Hello
I understand the reason for thinking that a compressed codec is maybe not an absolute .
However one really strong use case in my environment is to avoid the use of tapes on a number of older tape based DV HDV cameras I have.So although t agree the value or uncompressed and codecs like Dnxhd are of great value the option of a more compressed codec would add a lot more additional value especially for field recording
Regards
NeilNeil
Effective Video
http://www.effectivevideo.co.za -
Hi
The Hyperdeck Shuttle is great for some users, but as ever with BMD stuff people see the low price tag and rush out to buy without thinking about the true costs.
The hyperdecks are designed for broadcast users and people looking to do heavy post (who need high bitrate source files to work from) OK so they are cheap, but they are very different products to the first generation of tapeless systems such as the Firestore.
FWIW I have a load of different tapeless systems for different purposes:-
Sony HDR60 which gets used with a V1 to avoid the annoyance of tapes.
Hyperdeck Shuttle – used with NX5 + EX1s where better quality is wanted
Atomos Ninja – used with NX5 / V1 + Vision Mixer – halfway house which provides both better quality and longer record times.
Hyperdeck Studio – used with vision mixers for convenience of form factor.I’d very much like to see lower bit rate DNxHD or ProRes on the hyperdecks – this would really help when we do longer events where managing hours of high bitrate footage is expensive and tedious. I’d also really like to see better file handling and the RS422 bugs fixed so we can use the Hyperdeck Studio as a playback device for live events.
I’m hoping to get my hands on a Hyperdeck Pro to review when it is available. The prospect of being able to do a 4 camera ISO record on a single device is very appealing. Thinking about this it seems more than likely that the Hyperdeck Pro will have to be able to use a lower bit rate compression to be able to stream 4x HD onto an SSD. Maybe BMD will roll this out onto the existing Hyperdecks? Lets hope so, but as ever don’t depend on BMD doing anything, look at the functionality of their products as-is and if you need a future update wait for its release until you purchase the device.
Cheers
Tom
https://ATEMuser.com -
“Personally, I do not understand wanting an AVCHD codec on a device such as this.”
Yes, and apparently BMD doesn’t understand it either. But BMD could sell thousands (perhaps 10s of thousands) more of these devices if they offered higher compression, and the support of timecode and closed-captioning for broadcast users (where it is required by law).
My local dealer recounted an exchange with the BMD people at a recent trade show where they seemed to have never considered that people are actively seeking replacement for the dead tape technology in these kinds of applications. The solid-state, no moving parts technology is so much less expensive to produce that they could really clean up the market as all those millions of tape machines die off.
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They already do timecode.
I don’t understand how you think closed captioning would be needed for an on camera recorder?
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Hello
My understanding is that timecode is through the SDI connections and not through HDMI?
After reading the discussions – I do think BM are misrepresenting this product somewhat if they are aiming it specifically at broadcasters and not trying to position it as a replacement for tape based recording for lets say the middle market users.
As I said in my original post none of the cameras in the product marketing material even has an SDI connector so the advertising imagery is somewhat misleading.
Yes maybe we should read the small print – but even then this broadcast positoning is not really explicitly mentioned.
Anyway in terms of codecs – they have 2 options now – uncompressed and DNxHD 220 and I dont think these should be replaced but surely having more choices = more value = more buyers = more profits?
The main monetary annoyances are the requirements to buy software to allow Windows to handle OSX file systems, having to buy the mounting plate separately and the need for an HDD / SSD docking station.
Cheers
NeilNeil
Effective Video
http://www.effectivevideo.co.za -
Having talked to some BMD folks at NAB, remember that licensing EACH CODEC, SPECIFICALLY EACH BITRATE, requires an additional fee to be paid which is then passed on to the consumer. I would love to see more bit rate options in ProRes personally on my 4 Hyperdeck Studios but the cost increase to do so might be a factor for me.
A $345 portable recorder capable of hdmi and HD-sdi input as well as real time cross conversion from/to hdmi and HD-sdi… Unfathomable!
Thrilled with my 4 HDStudios. Just need SSD prices to drop on the larger capacity drives AND a Thunderbolt external SATA dock to back these suckers up quickly…
Big Dog – Technical Director – Switcher
Road Dog Media – Vancouver, BC Canada
roaddogmedia@gmail.com -
Oh and regarding using firewire as an input:
Firewire output on cameras is limited to 25mbps (the DV/hdv standard) so it is already heavily compressed, so much so that 1080I requires anamorphic pixels (1440 x 1080) to stay within bandwidth.
Not uncompressed like HD-sdi and hdmi.
Wrong solution.
The ONLY other viable input would be analog component, which is available on the Studio Pro HyperDeck.
Big Dog – Technical Director – Switcher
Road Dog Media – Vancouver, BC Canada
roaddogmedia@gmail.com -
Yes good points Shaun.
Personally I’d like to see maybe just one additional “low bitrate” option added for extended record times ideally this would be DNxHD 36 – giving over 10 hours on an affordable SSD drive, at a better quality than internal recording on the majority of affordable cameras. (ie better than XDCam EX)
Regarding the HFS+ format it is extremely annoying and something that should be dumped ASAP. exFAT is the way forward for these drives in the future as it is properly cross-platform and supports very large files.
In the meantime I totally recommend Transmac as an alternative to macdrive – it simply works a lot better.
I do find it kind of odd that people don’t read the specs of things properly before they buy. If the Hyperdecks cost 5x the price they do then most of these complaints would simply not exist, as people would of really investigated before they buy and not expect any great compatibility with 8 year old HDV cameras from devices which would be seen as broadcast orientated!
Cheers
Tom
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