-
How many here really dislike audio tracks and the viewer?
-
[John Godwin] “I certainly understand that FCPX may not work for everyone’s workflow. From my probably excessive reading of this forum I haven’t seen anyone claiming that, though you like to pretend they have.”
I don’t know what you’ve been reading John, because this is the number one complaint of most broadcast editors here, and it has been since X was first rolled-out. I’ve certainly been saying it since day one. Walter Biscardi, Shane Ross, Oliver Peters, Chris Harlan, and Richard Harrington have all been saying the same thing right here since June 21st, 2011. And, two weeks ago, Mark Raudonis of Bunim/Murray, one of the largest creators of reality programming in the world, said the same as well, when he announced his company was moving back to AVID.
David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles
https://www.drwfilms.comDon’t miss my new Creative Cow Podcast: Bringing “The Whale” to the Big Screen:
https://library.creativecow.net/weiss_roth_david/Podcast-Series-2-MikeParfitandSuzanneChisholm/1POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™
Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Business & Marketing and Apple Final Cut Pro forums.
-
[John Godwin] “I certainly understand that FCPX may not work for everyone’s workflow. From my probably excessive reading of this forum I haven’t seen anyone claiming that, though you like to pretend they have.”
“I don’t know what you’ve been reading John, because this is the number one complaint of most broadcast editors here, and it has been since X was first rolled-out. I’ve certainly been saying it since day one. Walter Biscardi, Shane Ross, Oliver Peters, Chris Harlan, and Richard Harrington have all been saying the same thing right here since June 21st, 2011. And, two weeks ago, Mark Raudonis of Bunim/Murray, one of the largest creators of reality programming in the world, said the same as well, when he announced his company was moving back to AVID.”
I phrased that clumsily in rewriting this on my iPad, sorry. But if you read it in context, my point was that I don’t see the supporters of FCPX claiming that it will be right for everyone. I’m well aware of the people you mention.
Best,
John -
No.
Conveniently it might sync a bunch of angles to dialogue, though. It’s a nice piece of software, a tool, but the editor still has work to do.
-
[David Roth Weiss] “Is the magnetic timeline really necessary?
Is it really more efficient?
In the overall scheme of things, is the cost in dollars and in man-hours spent retraining millions of editors really worth it?
“Yes, to A
Yes, to B
and Yes to C.
A. Necessary because the single most common editing function is assembling scenes without gaps in a string on a timeline. Making that the default serves the majority needs of the largest group of editors.
B. Yes. I personally found I can get projects done faster in X after 3 months experience than I could after 10 years using Legacy. I’m certainly not smarter than any other editor. I’m certainly not more talented than any other editor. I am an AVERAGE working editor. Period. The only difference between me and most others is that I didn’t succumb to the temptation to let my discomfort in the initial changes spoil my entire outlook about the new program.
X is a much more efficient editing program compared to Legacy primarily because they obviated the need to pre-render everything in order to get to work – just like FCPs competitors. I also find that the combination of pre-trimming in the Event Browser – AND the magnetic timeline seriously shortens the time from ingest to rough cut by very, very significant amounts. That time shortens even more during my common “stage 2” edit where I watch through the timeline for the first time and determine if there is benefit to re-arranging the order of either individual clips or any series of clips.
If you’re editing to a “fixed script” and know the order of each and every scene in advance, this advantage will fade. But if you have the freedom to make order changes to your scene, magnetism can be a huge efficiency boost.
Finally, C is yet another example of pushing your individual view ahead of fact.
The truth is that nobody “forced” anyone to re-train on anything. If you don’t want to re-train, fine. keep using Legacy. Sure you’ll eventually have to change programs. But nobody has EVER had a guarantee that ANY piece of software would last forever.
So again, get over it.
FCP is no longer Legacy – it’s X. Use it or don’t.
But stop the incessant single minded drumbeat that you and the entire industry have been somehow mortally wounded.
David, you have NOT been wounded. You were likely a fine editor yesterday. And you are one today.
You do not resonate with FCP-X – fine – but what’s the point of coming back time and time and time again proffering the same POV that X must prove to be somehow “more superior” to every other editing program in every area to be worthy of any respect?
What’s up with that?
“Before speaking out ask yourself whether your words are true, whether they are respectful and whether they are needed in our civil discussions.”-Justice O’Connor
-
[Bill Davis] “X is a much more efficient editing program compared to Legacy primarily because they obviated the need to pre-render everything in order to get to work – just like FCPs competitors.”
Did they obviated the need to pre-render Red R3D, DPX or ARRIRAW? Was there the need to pre–render DV or DVCPRO-HD in Legacy?
-
[Michael Aranyshev] “Did they obviated the need to pre-render Red R3D, DPX or ARRIRAW? Was there the need to pre–render DV or DVCPRO-HD in Legacy?
“Fair point, perhaps.
However, you list three “rising in the future” big data file formats – and then directly cite three “long in the tooth” small file legacy formats.
Apples and oranges.
Since X is a modern work in progress – it’s up to the reader to consider whether as X moves into the future where Red, DPX and ARRIRAW are increasingly relevant – X might adapt really well to those needs.
It’s already more “file format agile” than Legacy – tho certainly no more “perfect” than any other editing platform in handling literally “everything” that might be tossed at it today.
“Before speaking out ask yourself whether your words are true, whether they are respectful and whether they are needed in our civil discussions.”-Justice O’Connor
-
[Bill Davis] “Since X is a modern work in progress – it’s up to the reader to consider whether as X moves into the future where Red, DPX and ARRIRAW are increasingly relevant – X might adapt really well to those needs.”
Current, smaller data formats – how does it handle P2, AVC-Intra, AVCHD, and XDCam? Native file format, or does it require a rewrap?
—————-
Michael Hancock
Editor -
I just wanted to point that DSLR footage is not “everything”.
-
One of my biggest gripes from the beginning of FCPX (and I like most of FCPX) is the file format handling.
Everything still needs to be a .mov, if it isn’t, it gets rewrapped or it’s simply unsupported.
The idea behind the FCPX way is awesome. Import and edit immediately while it transcodes in the background. we just need more format support and control.
-
B-
Not because it will add in all the lost usefulness, just some of it.
But because it means that there is a chance that editors are actually being listened to, instead of dictated to.
I know this is a novel concept for some. That is, the idea that the users have some input on how the product performs.I’ve read the thread, and rather than point by point respond to some of the posts, let me just address (rant) all of it in one shot.
I’m weary of this vocal minority that worship at the alter of apple and ubillos. They act as if they can’t possibly make a mistake, or be pressured by market demands to fix this mess.
Since when do we as editors, let engineers and salesmen tell us how it is?
And why is Walter Murch being displeased about all this, the proverbial 800 pound gorilla in the room that the fanboys don’t want to discuss?
I’ll tell you why.
Because, as an apple FCP spokesman, undisputed world class authority on editing with everything from Movieola to multiple non linear platforms, and possibly the most respected editor alive today, his dislike for iMove Pro carries a lot of weight on the “it sucks” side of the argument.
Which is a really inconvenient thing for the Movie Hero fans.
A lot more than the guy trying to sell me something, that doesn’t actually use it. All the (fanboys) want to do is talk about what Randy, or others that earn a living from selling this and related products have to say. All the people that stand to make a buck from a million noobs jumping on the X bandwagon certainly have a dog in the fight, and can’t be trusted to give and unbiased opinion. Their business is selling stuff to new unknowledgeable people. They don’t earn a living editing, and they aren’t making a lot of money selling training and related services to those with any appreciable amount of seat time. That makes them shills, and I don’t really care what they have to say, or how much they like it since they don’t have the end user perspective. They have a salesman’s perspective.
They would be hurting their own business if they didn’t ‘like it’, or encourage noobs to buy into it. What part of that do the fanboys not get?
And Randy Ubillios is at the top of the stack. All he wants to do is keep grinding out crap for noobs to buy, so his stock and bonus doesn’t take a hit. So of course he is going to tout it as some new must have thing. That is what apple does. And if it’s a flop, they move on and pretend it didn’t happen. That is also what apple does. Apple doesn’t care if it devalues the trade, floods the market killing rates, or is an under-performing boat anchor for the pro users. The concern is how much apple-speak the marketing guys can come up with to lure in a million new users into paying for the privilege of being beta testers, and that it is ‘good enough’. Apple doesn’t care about you, your needs, your business or your clients. Apple cares about money. Their money. Which they should since its in business to sell this stuff, and make some Ducats. In any other context, this is where the crowd would start yapping about greedy corporations…(crickets)
The (fans) must live in a vacuum if they think apple hasn’t made huge mistakes before, and can’t possibly be making one now. Or they pretend these bombs aren’t some major apple cock-up, and dismiss the duds as being “ahead of their time”, and the critics as being Luddites, or some other similar lame excuse. And of course there’s the B-side of this worn out record called “it will be fixed in the next version”. This is very similar to ‘future work’. You know, that free work people expect us to do, so that in the bright (and distant) future there will be a big carrot on the end of the string. Future work doesn’t pay today’s bills, and I can’t use features to be included at a later time on today’s clients. The entire concept of this being an early version is just more of the same, along these lines. It’s as if the NLE was just invented, and we didn’t have a previous ten year history of knowing what works, and what people want.
If we were talking about any other multi-billion dollar corporation pulling the crap apple does, everyone would be going apoplectic, sitting in their basement blogging their little fingers off, trying to gin up an occupy Cupertino. But your not. Instead, you side with the billion dollar corporation that yanked the rug out from under some of its most loyal and knowledgeable professional users. It is inexplicable.
However, I wouldn’t be so smug as some of the iMovie Pro crowd. Past performance is an excellent predictor of future action. Apple killed Shake, the server, FCS. Seemingly without any thought of how it might impact the customer base. So you can love X all you want, defend it and apple all you want, and keep ‘rebuying’ stuff you already have instead of standing firm and insisting they fix what you already bought and paid for. But there will be a punishment for rewarding this behavior of treating the customer as a disposable item. History tells us that you too will someday be a victim of the irrational, no notice EOL of your favorite software and hardware that you have based your business on. So I wouldn’t get too attached to it if I were you. And I hope your not in the middle of a big gig when it happens.Scott Sheriff
Director
https://www.sstdigitalmedia.com“If you think it’s expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur.” —Red Adair
Where were you on 6/21?
Reply to this Discussion! Login or Sign Up