How do I present ideas to a client while still keeping the ideas as my own?

[Mark Suszko]

Really, you can’t. You’re not in any kind of position to protect your ideas. Ideas are free. The *specific* creative EXPRESSION of an idea can sometimes successfully be protected, but you probably lack the resources to do that. Try a keyword search on “Discovery Channel production portal” here on the COW for some background. A client will not be interested in signing your NDA or anything like that. You tell your idea, you hope for the best. That’s it.

Often when large ad agencies are asked to bid or submit a spec on a project, they get paid a token fee for some of their time and expenses, whether they get the job or not. There’s a sort of understood gentleman’s agreement that the losers’ stuff will not be used by the client, but this still happens occasionally, even on Madison and Michigan avenues. Usually they keep it out of court, where nobody wins but the lawyers.

I once did a ton of spec work for a local business, an appliance store, for a radio campaign. My ideas were very creative, but they turned me down. However, they did tell me they’d give me half off on a water heater, if I ever needed one…. you know, for my trouble. But they had chosen to go in a different direction, as the saying goes…

Three weeks later, I hear a radio spot strangely similar to some of the specs I’d written for them. And I laughed. Because the radio station guy that ripped off my work didn’t understand half of the background or the overall strategy, and the spots came off very weak. The appliance company folded a while later, I got a top prize in a local competition for a sample of my spec for that client.

My water heater is still okay, thank God.

Here’s the thing: they can always rip off what you’ve DONE. But you get hired for the *next* creative thing you can do for someone, for what’s in your head. What you’re marketing is not the specific idea, but the mind that’s GENERATING the ideas.

[Tim Wilson]

This is worth doing a search on in this forum, as it comes up pretty regularly. The short answer is, you can’t. There’s no such thing as owning an idea. There’s no legal way to prevent them from 100% stealing your idea.

Taking your WORK, no. There are many protections for that. Taking your IDEA, yes. They’re legally free to do that.

Your selling points are:

1) Nobody can execute this vision as well as I can;
2) I came up with THIS original idea. I can come up with others for you; and
3) You’ll enjoy working with me.

(You’ll see throughout the archives for this forum that if clients want to spend TIME with you that they’ll be more likely to spend MONEY with you.)

The fact is that most people are a combination of ethical and lazy enough that nothing bad will happen…but it might, and there’s nothing you can do about it but emphasizing the points above. It’s never JUST about the work. Keep them focused on the big picture — the one that has you smack dab in the middle. 🙂

Good luck!

Tim

Tim Wilson
Vice President, Editor-in-Chief
Creative COW Magazine
Twitter: timdoubleyou

The typos here are most likely because I’m, a) typing this on my phone; and b) an idiot.

[Tim Wilson]

So there you go, Stephen. Two pieces of nearly identical advice in 5 minutes. 🙂

[Mark Suszko]

Mine had more story value 😉

[Mark Suszko]

BTW, if you get Sundance or IFC channels, program your DVR for “The Pitch”. Two real ad agencies compete to do a campaign for a real client, and you see the behind the scenes process. Interesting.

[Stephen Pickering]

Well, guys, that’s not really what I was hoping to hear! I was hoping to hear “add this magic line to the bottom of the contract and you’re golden.” Na, I’m just kidding, but honestly I did think there was more protection for the ideas presented.

I appreciate both of your helpful answers which are exactly what I needed to hear. I’ve done lots of commercial competitions and always tell myself I would laugh to see one of our ideas made into a million dollar spot…

Thank you very much for your helpful information- I’ll do some more research as suggested but I think you’ve answered my biggest question of how to keep them as my own, “you can’t.”

Thanks!

-Stephen

[Mads Nybo jørgensen]

Hey Stephen,

Mark and Tim is right, you cannot easily protect an idea. Best way forward is to convince the client that you are the best supplier.

However, you can “employ” a number of devices to help you secure your idea and concept. Potential client might not like these, but if you don’t ask, you don’t get and it also shows that you are professional:

1) Ask the potential client to sign a mutual NDA – this is for both parties to secure their confidential intellectual properties. (Please note: NDA’s are very difficult and expensive to take through the courts, but they do show intent of good faith by both sides). Alternative could instead be to get client to sign an Account Application form for doing business with your firm. This form MUST come with Terms & Conditions attached and a box to tick for client accepting them. And it must include a clause for ownership of ideas and concepts.

2) Include people or locations into the concept that are unique and that will sign an exclusive contract with your company – i.e. if potential client approach them, they will already be assigned to you.

3) Produce a test video demonstrating the concept. By doing this, you take a tangible ownership of the idea, and you could potentially go after the winning production company for violating your copyright. (Please note that you must make your idea very unique for this to work)

My 5 pence 🙂

All the Best
Mads

@madsvid, London, UK
Check out my other hangouts:
Twitter: @madsvid
https://mads-thinkingoutloud.blogspot.co.uk

[Jonathan Ziegler]

Before you have the meeting, they should all sign a non-disclosure agreement that clearly indicates you will be sharing something with them that is your intellectual property. Have clear and concise notes for the meeting – your ideas are just ideas and aren’t protected, but your notes are part of the unique expression of that idea and are protected. So far thats protecting trade secrets and copyright.

Lastly, even if they “steal” your idea, they still have to do the work which is the really hard part. Really, if you have a handful of ideas, you haven’t got much. An idea is only as good as its execution. If they like your ideas and they think you can execute them, then they’ll hire you.

Jonathan Ziegler
https://www.electrictiger.com/
520-360-8293

[Tim Wilson]

I’m going to respectfully disagree, Mads.

The problem with an NDA is that it only covers disclosure, ie, telling somebody. That doesn’t cover the real problem, which is the idea being stolen. The outstanding issue remains that ideas are mentioned in American law as specifically NOT being protected, and no agreement outside the law is legally binding.

This presents some very big issues. One is that if a client has even a passing knowledge of such things, the request gets laughed off, asking with 100% of your credibility.

Two is, this isn’t rocket science, and shouldn’t be treated like it is. NDAs are for major commercial enterprises, typically ones that are publicly traded where the consequences of leaked information can be disastrous – but absolutely not for something like this.

For example, at the COW, we are constantly being briefed on future stuff, including technology, movies, tv shows, and far far more. We might get asked to sign an NDA 2 or 3 times a year, if that. I can only think of 1 so far this year.

There is the additional issue of trust, the idea that if you ask somebody not to tell, and they agree, their word isn’t enough for you? then don’t work with then.

Little things: NDAs are contracts. Even many small businesses are required by their owners to consult counsel before signing contracts. Even without lawyers, he person you pitch to may not have authority to sign an NDA, so it would have to go to someone else in the company. Now, you’ve created an obstacle between you and the pitch. The object of the game is to remove obstacles.

I saved the biggest for last, which is: don’t overthink this. Great ideas are a dime a dozen. They line the bottom of birdcages if they’re not littering the street. The basis for success has never ever been great ideas. It’s the ability to follow through, and do them WELL.

I use Apple as an example just because everybody else does: they were late to computers, dead last to add color, very nearly dead last to portable music players, very very late in the game to phones – the list goes on. The originality is in the execution.

To take that a step further, you can succeed with a crappy or derivative idea if you do it well enough. Ideas aren’t worth that much at all.

Here’s the biggest reason not to sweat this: Stephen, you don’t know yet if even one potential client thinks you have a good idea until you pitch it. They might throw you out on your ear. But here’s the thing – as they talk to you about it, they may make the idea even better. Because the best ideas aren’t “things.” They’re platforms that you can build more and greater things upon.

The best things that happen in this industry – as in many others – are never the result of one person. They’re the result of a collaborative, iterative process.

And hey, even if it really is the best idea ever, are you saying, to us, to your clients, to yourself, that you’ll never come up with a better one>

So trust yourself. Trust your clients. Relax.

And never forget: there is precisely zero legal protection for ideas. Don’t ask for something that you can’t have.

Tim Wilson
Vice President, Editor-in-Chief
Creative COW Magazine
Twitter: timdoubleyou

The typos here are most likely because I’m, a) typing this on my phone; and b) an idiot.

[Mads Nybo jørgensen]

Hey Tim,

What you don’t agree with me!?

Actually, we do agree on this point: There is no way that you can protect an idea, because that is all it is – and once it is in the public domain, it is for all to use.

However, you can protect a business arrangement. And I hope that you will agree with the following suggestion: If a “client” ask a “supplier” to provide an idea. Then should the “client” use the idea, the “supplier” has the right to charge for it. For this to be enforceable, one needs to establish a business relationship.

I.e. Stephen ask the “client” in writing to confirm that they would like him to make a proposal. There would be nothing wrong in him agreeing to do so, provided the client understand that there will be a charge should they want to use the idea – obviously he has to make this point upfront, rather than when the horse has bolted.

An NDA is not perfect (as previously stated), but it is one way in the eyes of a court to establish a serious business relationship.

All of this is a mute point if Stephen is very good, competitively priced and the client feels that he is the right man for the job…

All the Best
Mads

@madsvid, London, UK
Check out my other hangouts:
Twitter: @madsvid
https://mads-thinkingoutloud.blogspot.co.uk