Horses for Courses – Avid vs. FCP

[Walter Biscardi]

I find that today people hire the artist, not the tool they are using. There are fewer and fewer producers who demand a certain product be used unless they have something that is already started and want to continue in that NLE.

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Biscardi Creative Media
HD and SD Production for Broadcast and Independent Productions.

Read my Blog!

STOP STARING AND START GRADING WITH APPLE COLOR Apple Color Training DVD available now!

[Stephan Walfridsson]

I have used Avid since the late 90’s and FCP since 2005, editing commercials, music videos and feature films, and to me it doesn’t really matter what system I’m on. Sure there are things that I prefer in FCP and other things where I prefer the Avid’s way of functioning. But I know the systems well enough to adjust my workflow so that I use the software as effectively as possible. If I edit a commercial on Avid I have a slightly different workflow than if I do it in FCP. Do I prefer one workflow to the other? No, not really. The differences are so small that the pro’s and con’s of each system balances out.

Stephan

[Shane Ross]

Dylan…I use both rather regularly. This is a very open question, one that cannot be answered on a forum without typing for a LONG TIME. Because a lot of factors are involved in making this decision. What format is being shot? What format do we need to deliver? How much footage will there be? How many editors? Where will the finishing be done? What is our budget?

And then we have a meeting or two to discuss the strengths and weaknesses of both…then sit down and determine what the workflow would be if we used Avid, and what it would be if we used FCP. Then we would choose the one that makes the most sense.

This is a huge topic.

Shane

GETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD…don’t miss it.
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def

[Lars Fuchs]

Stephan and Walter are right in that functionally, there really isnt much to separate the two platforms from each other. I work with both systems frequently. Anecdotally, based just on my clients, my impression is that older more established businesses tend to use Avid, and the newer, smaller companies tend to use Final Cut pro.

Firms old enough to predate Final cut pro, say around 2002-2003 when fcp versions 3 and 4 came out, have a considerable investment in Avid gear and expertise. They probably find that it makes sense for them to stick with what they have. A large number of avids are running on Wintel platforms, which adds an extra impediment to making the switch.

[Dylan Reeve] “I’m not interested in a slagging match in either direction”

Nor I, but you never know. However I have found one area where I prefer Avid to FCP. And that is in editing a television series which has several editing suites and multiple editors cutting multiple episodes simultaneously. Now, I’m an old goat with many obsolete habits, so if I can be proven wrong here, then that’s great. But let me explain my opinion here:

Since FCP stores bins inside a project file, you have to open the enclosing project first if you need to access a bin in another project. This doesn’t seem like it would be a big deal, and in many cases it isn’t, but projects, especially as they get bigger, can take quite a while to open. When you have to open a lot of bins from other projects, those extra moments start to add up. I’ve worked on a reality shows that shoot thousands of hours of footage that fill hundreds of bins. I was often exasperated by the time spent waiting for projects to open. But presumably as computers get faster, this will be less of a problem.

Avid stores bins as separate files, so they can be opened directly from other projects. I find that to be a time saver.

A more serious issue arising in this same multi-episode, multi-room, multi-editor situation is version control. Using Avid’s Unity, editors can share a single bin (not a copy). Only the first editor who opens a bin can save it, all others have only read-only access, but can save copies. In final cut, each editor works with a local copy of the project containing the relevant bins. I found that this necessitated a great deal more work on the part of the editors, or more often, the assistant editors, to keep a master copy of the project up-to-date, which in an Avid Unity is totally unnecessary.

I’ll just hasten to add that this is just one particular situation, and that I recognize that Avid has its own shortcomings in other areas. This is just one that in my personal experience might make me choose one over the other.

[Walter Biscardi]

[Lars Fuchs] “Since FCP stores bins inside a project file, you have to open the enclosing project first if you need to access a bin in another project. This doesn’t seem like it would be a big deal, and in many cases it isn’t, but projects, especially as they get bigger, can take quite a while to open”

One simple workaround for this issue is to create a New Project on the system that has the bin you want. Drag that Bin to the New Project. Now open that Project on the system that needs the bin. Will take much less time to open.

Definitely not as elegant as the Avid way, but it’s something that can help in your situation.

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Biscardi Creative Media
HD and SD Production for Broadcast and Independent Productions.

Read my Blog!

STOP STARING AND START GRADING WITH APPLE COLOR Apple Color Training DVD available now!

[Mark Raudonis]

Lars,

Let me just say that I DISAGREE with you 100%.

Your negative comments about “networked, group workflow” is exactly why Avid vs FCP is such a debatable topic.

What you’re describing is EXACTLY what we do on a BIG scale. We often have six different shows going simultaneously, with almost 100 seats connected. We’re using X-SAN and FCP, and the “project sharing” problem that you outline just isn’t an issue. Trust me when I say we couldn’t meet our deadlines if we had the issues you’re alluding to. We do reality TV with MASSIVE amounts of media.
Last time I checked, our SAN was at 81 terrabytes and growing. (After NAB)

Maybe it’s our approach. We pioneered the switch from Avid to FCP over FIVE years ago. Back then, what you’re talking about may have been true, but if you set up your SAN properly, the “project” workflow ceases to become an issue. In fact, having the ENTIRE SAN as a source of media is a good thing. Avid is actually moving in that direction with their “Interplay” approach and now their new “AMA” media.

As I see it, the reason that many people slam FCP for it’s “group workflow” inadequacies is that they either just can’t imagine how to organize an entire company around FCP or they just don’t want to
give up their Avids. Don’t get me started on the financial differences between the two.

Oh, and don’t forget “Color” and the final on-line process. As others have mentioned, this debate is a HUGE topic that can’t possibly be covered in a few posts.

Mark

[Jeremy Garchow]

I don’t know what you guys are talking about. iMovie and it’s new Ken Burns ParticleDazzler Effect totally kicks butt. Avid? FCP? Harumph.

[Shane Ross]

You just have to know the workflow for multi-users for FCP. It is VERY different from Avid, and if you take the Avid approach you are in for disaster. I am now on my third job with shared storage and shared projects, each slightly different (different SAN setups), but each with the same basic concept. All based off the basic idea that you work locally, back up globally. It just takes a shift in your mindset…and it takes Avid guys a little time to adjust, but not too long. Once you get it it works fine.

Still, there are times where Avid is a better solution than FCP…it all boils down to the questions I stated earlier. And it is something that takes a lot of discussion.

Shane

GETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD…don’t miss it.
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def

[Anders Haavie]

I totally agree with Mark. We run a rather big system with about 20 fcp systems on one big xsan system. It works out great if you just figure out the workflow.

One thing I like better with avids is that I find the more stable when projects are getting big. (When fcp projects start reaching 100 mb).

Anders

Xraid-Xserve-Xsan-Xeverything

[Steven Gonzales]

Mark: When you’re not busy, it would be great to have a special report on your workflow here on the Cow or elsewhere. I make this argument, that there is no reason FCP can be used in groups, but I don’t have the details to back it up.

Thanks for the post.