Horses for Courses – Avid vs. FCP

[Shane Ross]

Mark is actually one of the first people featured in the PRO section of the Apple apps. Him and Bunim Murray and their implimentation of the XSan.

Shane

GETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD…don’t miss it.
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def

[Shane Ross]

Mark is actually one of the first people featured in the PRO section of the Apple apps. Him and Bunim Murray and their implimentation of the XSan.

Shane

GETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD…don’t miss it.
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def

[Arc Nevada]

Dylan Reeve,

A lot depends on you as the user. What are your needs. Could you use iMovie to edit your projects?

Avid, Apple’s FCP, Premiere and Edius all do about the same thing more or less but you will find yourself liking the GUI and work flow of one more than the others. I have used FCP many times non professionaly (my friends system). On the other hand I used an $80,000.00 Media Composer from 1997-2002. It was a real kick as system back then. I think FCP was still Macromedia’s Key Grip back in 1997. Avid’s were the top dog back in the 90s but as of today almost any computer and software solution will work. Choose the one that works best for your needs. I use the Adobe Master Collection my self because I do web design, print production and video editing. If I just did video editing I would opt for Edius (great software) but the integration of the Adobe products speeds up the work flow for my needs. I have nothing agaisnt FCP but if you compare Avid, FCP, Premiere and Edius you will find they all work just fine. The titler is the biggest weakness of FCP in my opinion where as Premiere has a great titler. Next would be the lack of Blu-Ray support. Will you need Blu-Ray support? All NLE software will have strengths and weakness. Avid has dedicated hardware from Avid if you can afford it. FCP is sold as a complete package known as Final Cut Studio. If you need Motion Graphics perhaps Apple’s Motion might help you decide or perhaps Adobe’s integration of Encore, PhotoShop, Premiere and After Effects might be the best work flow for you. What are your needs? You may end up buying FCP only to find out your would have been better of with Edius or the Adobe production Premium. My Final Cut pro friend has come to that conclusion. I know many PC users who have bought a Mac Pro and FCP because they hear time and time agian how great it is. The sad truth is that it is just another NLE system and it may or may not be the best solution for your needs.

As far as what jobs to take is conserned I would take a job using Avid just as easily as I would using Edius if the opportunity arrived. In the end you submit a demo real. You either have talent or you do not. The person doing the interview is not a PC vs Mac guy or Avid vs FCP guy. More often than not the interviews I go to require a sample AV script as well. You may find that you need to multi task at certain jobs.

[Lars Fuchs]

[Mark Raudonis] “What you’re describing is EXACTLY what we do on a BIG scale. We often have six different shows going simultaneously, with almost 100 seats connected. We’re using X-SAN and FCP, and the “project sharing” problem that you outline just isn’t an issue”

That’s awesome. How do you do it? As I said, I’m an old goat with old habits, but not so proud that I’m unwilling to learn a better way of doing things. So I honestly want to know.

[Mark Raudonis]“Your negative comments about “networked, group workflow” is exactly why Avid vs FCP is such a debatable topic.”

Isn’t that what we’re doing? All the same, I didn’t intend to be negative; I was just describing an observable fact, that in order to share bins across projects you have to open the projects first. Whether that adversely affects one’s workflow depends on the workflow, and ultimately, your point of view. What works for one, doesn’t work for another.

Unfortunately, I don’t often get to do much about how my clients’ systems are set up, including workflow. That’s usually a done deal by the time I’ve been hired. I’ve begun to treat the project file roughly as though it were a bin, and that’s been working out all right for me.

But in all earnestness, I would really be grateful if you could share some insights into how you manage your editorial setup. I think I could learn a lot..

[Andrew Kimery]

Steven,

Provideocoalition has an interview w/Mark talking about their work flow:
https://provideocoalition.com/index.php/apple/story/reality_tv_post_with_final_cut/

They also have an interview with Scott Templeton of Pie Town Productions talking about how they utilize FCP in a muli-editor, multi-show environment.
https://provideocoalition.com/index.php/apple/story/large_scale_final_cut_pro_installations_part_ii/

-A

3.2GHz 8-core, FCP 6.0.4, 10.5.5
Blackmagic Multibridge Eclipse (6.8.1)

[Dylan Reeve]

I should have put more detail in the post possibly, it originally included a link to my website where I’ve detailed my thoughts a little more – but that link is no longer there.

Basically if you’re an editor who is familiar with both Avid and FCP, and can choose either for a given job, what qualities of each system would help you chose what to use on that job.

The network editing strengths of Unity are a big one for many users I believe, FCP can technically do the same, but the discipline required to manage that process well is intimidating (that said I’d love to know more detail on the system you’re using Mark).

Similarly the integration with Color could be a big plus on jobs that are going to require complex colour correction.

What I’ve wanted to do for a long time is actually try and setup some head-to-head test between the two to get a somewhat more objective idea of strengths and weaknesses. A number of specific job scenarios, well-appointed suites, competent editors… Put each through it’s paces and try to figure out where it excels and where it struggles. It is difficult in a area full of marketing hype to really know what works really well in any given situation.

But I’ve wanted to do that for the past couple of years and haven’t managed to so far, so I’m not seeking personal experiences.

Here’s an question that I’d be interested in some answers to…
In what features or functions does FCP perform worse than Avid?

From my experience, I find rendering slower, and have had less realtime performance in FCP than I’d expect in Avid.

Similarly I find many of the simple geometry (scaling/moving) functions in Avid to be clunky and lacking in finese.

I’d rate Avid’s media management as it’s number one feature of FCP.

What about you guys, more familiar with FCP?

[Stephan Walfridsson]

[Dylan Reeve] “What I’ve wanted to do for a long time is actually try and setup some head-to-head test between the two to get a somewhat more objective idea of strengths and weaknesses.”

I think that the number of variables that are involved in a project would make it hard to come up with any kind of objective answers. First it depends on the editor and the hardware, then you have to factor in source formats, delivery formats, exact need for graphics and effects and all the other things that go into a project.

[Dylan Reeve] “In what features or functions does FCP perform worse than Avid? “

I believe that it in the end it’s just a matter of personal taste and workflow habits.

But to answer your question; The one thing that I constantly curse at FCP for is the way it handles render caches on the timeline. Avid does this much more effectively… And the possibility to add effects to empty tracks in Avid is a nice feature that I miss when I use FCP.

Stephan

[Michael Gissing]

In the doco online/ grade area, I speak to lots of editors and over the past years the common quote has been “I prefer the AVID but if I am going to buy my own system it is FCP”.

Their two common reasons are price and the fact that they feel more comfortable in their technical ability to install and maintain FCP over AVID. Cost is a big issue in the doco area and lack of tech support that used to be available in bigger facilities but is now being squeezed as they compete with home FCP setups is turning opinion away from AVID.

Also few facilities that I know of here in Australia are exclusively AVID because they know that FCP is what many younger editors are demanding. I sense a generational change but amongst older editors, there is also a sense that FCP is now their preferred system.

That said, as someone who has used FCP for four years and still uses audio systems like Fairlight & dSP, I still find FCP and AVID to be clumsy and very poor ergonomically compared to dedicated controllers.

[Steven Gonzales]

Thanks for the links, guys. I’m smiling with a big “I love the COW” feeling.