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Hello Adobe! Major Time Code Problem in 2.0
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[Timothy] “select New Item then Offline File. Under Media Start, enter 06:04:00:00. Then under Media End, enter 06:10:00:00. Click OK. First, notice that the code appears as drop frame code. This alone is ridiculous. Also note that the differential between what you entered as the non-drop in point and what appears as the drop frame in point in the project window is 21 seconds 26 frames.”
Hmmm…I think I did it just as you described…and I see no error. It does present in DF as you said, but the in point for my offline clip is 06;04;00;02…which is precisely what I would expect the DF value to be…the 06;10;00;00 holds of course because it is the tenth minute…and my media duration reads 00;05;59;29…also appropriate.
Other than I suppose one could be upset about the forced DF values (although I created an offline clip in a DF project…I guess I’m not sure why that would be unexpected…), I guess I’m either not having the same issue, or I still don’t understand it.
TimK,
Kolb Productions,
Creative Cow Host,
Author/Trainer
http://www.focalpress.com
http://www.classondemand.net -
Tim,
Change your project settings (Display Format) to non drop frame and try it again.
Tim
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[Dave Friend] “I am sorry to say that Mr. Kolb is wrong. For every SMPTE nondrop frame timecode value there is a corresponding and immutable drop frame timecode value – no ifs ands or buts.”
Dave…
First of all, I guess I’m not seeing the same issue anyway…but I’m curious about the TC values here…
(I only shoot and edit in DF…maybe I’m confused about conversion?)
I do understand that there are values, etc…and what the cumulative value would be…
When one would start capturing a tape that starts with 7 hours flat NDF, I suppose Tim’s question is-why wouldn’t PPro start at that value, even if it isn’t the identical value, and start accumulating offset from there? I understand the concept of the cumulative offset, but I guess I never realized that you would see a cumulative offset on ingest of field tape…
It’s interesting that the “create offline file” apparently assumes when I type in “06;04;00;00” that PPro assumes I just don’t know what I’m talking about and adds the two frames, whereas if I was typing NDF values in, the cumulative offset should really be calculated if I follow what you’re saying.
I guess I’m missing something as I never work with a timeline that long, or that quantity of NDF footage coming into a DF project.
TimK,
Kolb Productions,
Creative Cow Host,
Author/Trainer
http://www.focalpress.com
http://www.classondemand.net -
Dave,
I don’t fully understand all the ins and outs of how PPro assigns these values or decides drop or non drop either. I do know that because 2.0 handles code differently from 1.5, and because I made an error in Display Format when I captured some of the footage in 1.5, we’re in big trouble. I also know that I should be able to enter non drop code in the project window and not have it converted to drop frame. Ken may have come up with a solution to that by suggesting we enter code, using capture instead. I know we’re probably looking at a lot of work to reconstitute our project. Maybe in the future we’ll simply do everything drop frame!
Thanks for your input — if you have any additional thoughts, I would love to hear them.
Tim
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From years of experience, shooting in NDF is a complicated mess! If your project is for broadcast or anything else except a print to film then DF is the way to go.
On another point I have multiple tapes from a documentary shoot that are DF and the TC is running at “free-run” “time of day” so one tape has hours 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, etc. So your theory that TC starts at 00 on each tape is not correct. Of course this is correct if you are working with DV tapes from a DV camera as the TC on a DV tape is not real TC but a reference from 00.
you can only get real TC on tapes that are DVcam and upwards.Ken Adolph
Media Group
Editor/Post Supervisor
https://www.mg.ca -
As I tried to say Ken, my point applies only to the conversion of code, either with material that has already been captured, or with time code that is entered as non drop and converted to drop. I think the example I gave in the previous post was fairly succinct. If the time code for a given file is not converted from one tc format to the other then it makes no difference.
Tim
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OK…got it.
The 21+ frame offset is cumulatively correct, of course…IF you were using DF and converting.
The problem is that the software is using DF even when a timeline is set for NDF…and a NDF timeline/project SHOULD capture 07:00:00:00 from a NDF tape as 07:00:00:00.
It’s a problem…that much I get.
TimK,
Kolb Productions,
Creative Cow Host,
Author/Trainer
http://www.focalpress.com
http://www.classondemand.net -
[Dave Friend] “Tim,
Do you agree that the purpose of timecode is to assign a unique value to every frame of a 24 hour period?
Dave”
Not sure which Tim you’re referring to…I think we all get that part of this…the issue is that inside a NDF project, an offline file you create would assume DF TC.
…also, a NDF project should capture NDF media without converting it to DF…that is a problem…and I verified the ofline file thing.
TimK,
Kolb Productions,
Creative Cow Host,
Author/Trainer
http://www.focalpress.com
http://www.classondemand.net -
Timothy,
If you can finish the project in 1.5, I would recommend that you do that. I imported an NDF 2.0 project into a DF 2.0 project, and the offline NDF clips showed up in the Project panel of the DF project with their original NDF timecode (and frame rate).
That would hint towards a workflow of having separate projects for your DF and NDF material, since you can’t change the project settings in 2.0. You can change the display of timecode, but that’s it. Once you have the 2 projects set up, import one into the other based on your final output needs.
-Jeff
The Focal Easy Guide to Adobe Encore DVD 2.0
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Hi Tim and all,
Adobe tech support was kind enough to call back this morning with some good news, a setting which had slipped his mind the day before. Under Edit / Preferences / Media…, there is a checkbox for Display Media Timecode In Source Frame Rate, which when checked eliminates at least the problems with creating an offline file in non drop code. Many thanks to Adobe tech Chris for chasing this down. He was very helpful.
On our end, we still have some work to do, but this gives us additional confidence that Adobe programmers are giving some attention to time code. Thanks to all who posted on this issue.
Tim Eaton
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