Grumpy times over on the Cows Creative Cloud or Not board…

[Jeremy Garchow]

[Jim Wiseman] “Draw your own conclusions. Myself, I’m moving to FCPX. Haven’t touched Premiere in months.”

Honestly, the decision process the CFO lays out is the only way it can be done. You can’t wallow around in uncertainty when you are as big as Adobe.

At some point, you have to move forward with the implementation of the decisions that have been made. It’s what Apple did, it’s what Adobe is doing, it’s what Avid and others are doing. It’s time to move on and move forward.

There are, of course, a number of avenues to take when trying to reach those decisions. A lot of it involves some level of a “cut and run” (take it or leave it!) approach. Adobe and Autodesk are doing it with a pricing model (at the expense of some customers and perhaps employees), Apple is doing it with legacy software and hardware (at the expense of some customers and perhaps employees), Avid is doing it from an accounting standpoint after having to lose quite a bit (at the expense of some customers and perhaps employees).

To be perfectly honest, I just don’t like Premiere. This is not a slight towards Adobe. Adobe has done an amazing job of bringing it up to speed very quickly, but it’s not something I wanted to invest countless hours in trying to master at this time. Even with X’s blemishes and holes, the underpinning or how Walter may say, the way the data is expressed, is more in line with how I think, or how I want to think. Now, it’s taken a little while, but even the interchange has come a long way. I am doing fairly complex retimed and ramped timelapse transfers from FCPX to After Effects using Xto7 and it it working really really well. It works so much better than trying to get in to Motion, because it’s impossible to get what I am trying to do in to Motion (take that low floor/ceiling!). I do not feel limited with X, and the creative work and process I am able to do (retiming in X is truly fantastic) trumps dynamic link for me. Also, with Roles, it seems that most interchange programs are now allowing to choose which Roles to send in the XML. This makes things so easy.

I have to have a CC subscription, so I can very easily peek in and see what’s going on with the CC Pr updates. I am most interested in the Speedgrade capabilities at this current time, and a faster After Effects will be great.

Jeremy

[Jim Wiseman]

Thanks for your insight, Jeremy. I’m taking to FCPX quite well, and honestly, as my work at this point is entirely documentary, boiling down footage from dozens of tapes over the years, it is great for these projects. I’m using FCP Legacy as digitizer as it is best suited for tape capture. I’m only using Motion for titles and transitions. No need for AE. Certainly not Premiere on a “pay as you go, forget about it if you don’t” basis. I have one client that pays the bills and their objective is to make something out of historic cultural footage that they, and I have a great interest in preserving.

Just thought the “burn the boats” attitude of the Adobe CFO was a bit shocking, considering the number of people they are leaving stranded. My opinion is that Apple, though they certainly changed the paradigm, is not forcing anyone to go into rental mode. I don’t have to submit to having my “boat” burned. I can still use FCP Legacy as an important part of these projects because I “own” it. Still works on my 2012 Mac Pro and so far as I can tell, on my new Tube. Also both programs are paid for and suitable for me, as I am obviously committed to the Mac.

Still think the Adobe model has more to do with the stock price than the users, the 1/4 that are left, many not “Full Boat” with a lot of $10/month photo users. Check out the conversation on the “grumpy” forum. No one over there is biting anyone. BTW, I still most enjoy this forum for it’s preponderance of positive exchange of viewpoints. “Grumpy” is rather focused on the problems many of us have with Adobe. Not always so positive, but I think necessary. This one is a free form conversation about what we all love. Media creation. Not so much finance and business models.

Jim Wiseman
Sony PMW-EX1, Pana AJ-D810 DVCPro, DVX-100, Nikon D7000, Final Cut Pro X 10.1.4, Final Cut Studio 2 and 3, Media 100 Suite 2.1.5, Premiere Pro CS 5.5 and 6.0, AJA ioHD, AJA Kona LHi, Blackmagic Ultrastudio 4K, Blackmagic Teranex, Avid MC, 2013 Mac Pro Hexacore, 1 TB SSD, 64GB RAM, 2-D500: 2012 Hexacore MacPro 3.33 Ghz 24Gb RAM GTX-285 120GB SSD, Macbook Pro 17″ 2011 2.2 Ghz Quadcore i7 16GB RAM 250GB SSD

[Andrew Kimery]

[Jeremy Garchow] ” I am most interested in the Speedgrade capabilities at this current time, and a faster After Effects will be great.”

Curious Jeremy, what has you looking at SpeedGrade while Resolve is available?

I’ve been eyeballing SG too but that’s mainly due to it’s ability to interact with PPro. If I was coming from any other NLE my first inclination would be to just go with Resolve.

[Jeremy Garchow]

[Andrew Kimery] “Curious Jeremy, what has you looking at SpeedGrade while Resolve is available? “

Because it’s attached to a more full fledged NLE.

The way my projects go, or seem to be going, is that picture lock is a farce. Since everything has been translating over to Adobe from FCPX pretty well lately, I can take the edit from “never-locked” to finished on Pr and have Speedgrade stay on a per clip filter type of basis. If changes do come, I can simply pick it up in Pr rather than trying to get changes back from X to Resolve and back.

For more normal workflows, Resolve is great, though, and the FCPXML integration is pretty good.

Also, I have been getting really great success right within FCPX. It has taken some getting used to, but I do like the results, and the workflow couldn’t be easier. 🙂

Jeremy

[Andrew Kimery]

[Jeremy Garchow] ” I can take the edit from “never-locked” to finished on Pr and have Speedgrade stay on a per clip filter type of basis. If changes do come, I can simply pick it up in Pr rather than trying to get changes back from X to Resolve and back.”

That “never locked” stage is exactly what appealed to me too about the PPro/SG relationship. Nifty to hear that your X projects come over so cleanly into PPro. This is exactly the kind of relationship I hoped for between FCP 7 and Color back in the day as the ‘just one more fix’ round tripping gets annoying fast.

[Jeremy Garchow]

[Jim Wiseman] “Just thought the “burn the boats” attitude of the Adobe CFO was a bit shocking, considering the number of people they are leaving stranded. My opinion is that Apple, though they certainly changed the paradigm, is not forcing anyone to go into rental mode. I don’t have to submit to having my “boat” burned. I can still use FCP Legacy as an important part of these projects because I “own” it. Still works on my 2012 Mac Pro and so far as I can tell, on my new Tube. Also both programs are paid for and suitable for me, as I am obviously committed to the Mac.”

Sometimes decisions are tough. From the perspective of the Adobe CFO, for better or for worse, you have to look at who your customers are, and then try and make a decision on the best way to service those customers so they will pay for that service.

Of the “12 million” customers, how many of those are paying customers? What does a biyearly-ish release schedule do for them? What are they paying for? How can we do better than that?

It’s obvious many companies are seeing the subscription benefit, or think they are seeing a benefit as subscription based services are sprouting up everywhere in the software industry in general.

It’s true that Apple isn’t forcing a rental model, but you have to be OK with what they are offering in the hardware department.

[Jim Wiseman]

Re the 12 million vs 3 million, you can see it in their income statements over the last several years. Large drop after CC. I posted the chart on the “grumpy site”. It is about in that proportion. It will take a couple of years to see if they made the right decision.

Jim Wiseman
Sony PMW-EX1, Pana AJ-D810 DVCPro, DVX-100, Nikon D7000, Final Cut Pro X 10.1.4, Final Cut Studio 2 and 3, Media 100 Suite 2.1.5, Premiere Pro CS 5.5 and 6.0, AJA ioHD, AJA Kona LHi, Blackmagic Ultrastudio 4K, Blackmagic Teranex, Avid MC, 2013 Mac Pro Hexacore, 1 TB SSD, 64GB RAM, 2-D500: 2012 Hexacore MacPro 3.33 Ghz 24Gb RAM GTX-285 120GB SSD, Macbook Pro 17″ 2011 2.2 Ghz Quadcore i7 16GB RAM 250GB SSD

[Dennis Radeke]

[Jim Wiseman] “Just thought the “burn the boats” attitude of the Adobe CFO was a bit shocking, considering the number of people they are leaving stranded.”

Jim, I think you may be reading into a statement too much and taking it out of context. I won’t try to convince you otherwise though. You’ve made your decision based on those things that are important to you. I can respect that even if I can’t agree with it.

However, to point out that you might have rose-colored glasses on, didn’t someone burn the boat with users the day FCPX shipped? Consider what FCPX 10.0.0 was then… No EDL, Source monitor, broadcast output, XML or OMF are just a partial list. Burned the boat on FCP8 which should have been 64-bit, RED workflows, native, etc.

You might respond…
[Jim Wiseman] “I can still use FCP Legacy as an important part of these projects because I “own” it. Still works on my 2012 Mac Pro and so far as I can tell, on my new Tube. Also both programs are paid for and suitable for me, as I am obviously committed to the Mac.”

The same is true for CS6 except that its 64-bit, handles a whole variety of codecs and workflows that FCP really can’t. Enables cross-platform workflows with true exchange as well as FCP XML and OMF and AAF. Tight integration with standard apps like Photoshop and After Effects, ground-breaking technology for GPU, etc. etc. etc! Again, the real point is you might have a slightly biased point of view – which is okay. I just want to point this out.

As for Adobe, I promise you that we will continue to try to earn your business and perhaps some day we will find a way that makes you satisfied. Until then, I wish you…

Warm regards,
Dennis – Adobe guy

[Jeremy Garchow]

[Jim Wiseman] “Re the 12 million vs 3 million, you can see it in their income statements over the last several years. Large drop after CC. I posted the chart on the “grumpy site”. It is about in that proportion. It will take a couple of years to see if they made the right decision.”

It will also be a couple of years until any early adopter discounts wear off. Once those wear off, the income nearly doubles for not doing anything but retaining the customer, that’s why 2016 is such a big year as the early discounts will start to wear off on a majority of the customers by then.

What I find most fascinating is how he explains that they basically had to walk over to “Wall Street” and show them why this is the right move as the analysts didn’t understand it at first.

I’m sure it was a good decision for them. Adobe will do fine.

[Jim Wiseman]

Thanks for your response Dennis. I have to point out that FCPX has evolved into a professional level application in the time since 10.0 was introduced and I have not had to pay a single dime extra for the improvements, which I am positive will continue. This was for the cost of CC for 6 months at normal pricing. I was rather taken aback at the interface changes at first myself, and this was what convinced me to move to Premiere CS6. I was just getting to the point that I was feeling comfortable with it when it was announced that beyond the current version it would only be available by rental, with projects becoming inaccessible without monthly payment ad infinitum. It didn’t take me and many others long to realize we were being put in a box we couldn’t get out of if we committed to CC. That was just unacceptable for my situation.

Since that time I have become proficient with FCPX and realized it’s many advantages. It more than meets my needs, and in fact, makes my work freer, faster, and more creative. It is far more cost effective than CC. I’m spending much more time reading the FCP forums and buying training for FCPX. If I really need FCP 7, I have it running on all my current machines. It is great at tape capture, for instance.

Perhaps if Adobe comes up with the often suggested off ramp whereby a user could pay a fee or commit to a minimum period of rental to lock into their current version of CC it might be bearable. This would allow a user to continue to work on their projects without being tied in perpetuity to monthly payments. They could then be sure of maintaining access to their work. That, in my mind might be a way to justify the CC program. I would only want the video related apps plus Photoshop anyway. My CS6 will fulfill my Adobe needs for many years with my current hardware strategy if no new approach materializes.

CC, as it stands, to be seems quite one sided in it’s advantage to Adobe vs. the user. The current plan reminds me of being “shipwrecked” on the Adobe “island”. That was why “burning the boats” struck such a raw nerve with David and myself when I read his posted quotes from your CFO . How could you not help but think of that image? If I were Adobe, I would keep the CFO as far away from the press as possible. He isn’t doing your public relations any favors. I’ve used Photoshop since the first version, and much other Adobe software. But no one company is indispensable. Hope you can come up with a better model.

Thanks again for your reply, it is appreciated.

Jim Wiseman
Sony PMW-EX1, Pana AJ-D810 DVCPro, DVX-100, Nikon D7000, Final Cut Pro X 10.1.4, Final Cut Studio 2 and 3, Media 100 Suite 2.1.5, Premiere Pro CS 5.5 and 6.0, AJA ioHD, AJA Kona LHi, Blackmagic Ultrastudio 4K, Blackmagic Teranex, Avid MC, 2013 Mac Pro Hexacore, 1 TB SSD, 64GB RAM, 2-D500: 2012 Hexacore MacPro 3.33 Ghz 24Gb RAM GTX-285 120GB SSD, Macbook Pro 17″ 2011 2.2 Ghz Quadcore i7 16GB RAM 250GB SSD