Ghost images in MOV file?

[Karly Melrose]

Hi,

Well, at first I could see no problem with your footage – there was no ghosting. BUT, after trying a few things, I think you might need to check your project settings!

It’s an odd one this – I imported your video in Vegas as is. All seemed fine: No ghosting (my project setting were the Vegas default)

However, I know I’ve had a similar problem in the past, and all I could figure out at the time is that it was because the frame rate and resolution of my project was different to the media I was using. So, I tried altering frame rate of my project, but couldn’t re-create ghosting.

I then used the ‘Match Media Setting’ in properties so that project settings were the same as the imported media. Media displayed at 1280 x 720 as per media settings. All fine, no ghosting.

THEN I set the project settings to use the NTSC DV Widescreen (720 x 480) template. And I now have a ghosting effect (with a combing effect on the ghost image – field order fixes the combing, but there’s still ghosting).

I suggest therefore that, to begin with, you use the ‘Match Project to Media’ function and see if that fixes your problem!

[Karly Melrose]

…or just try making sure your project properties are 30fps!

[Paul Goelz]

Duh! That was it. I was stuck thinking in 29.97 FPS mode. The file is 30FPS. I’m assuming (now that I think about it rationally) that Vegas was interpolating frames to match the 29.97FPS project setting. As soon as I set the project to 30FPS, all was well.

Pretty amazing what a little $40 camera the size and shape of a keyfob can do with a lens that is about 1.5mm in diameter (3mm f/l, f2.8).

Thanks again. This one had me stumped, but it shouldn’t have 😉

Paul

Paul Goelz
Rochester Hills, MI USA
paul at pgoelz dot com

[Karly Melrose]

Glad I could help.

Sorry though for my long-winded way of getting to the point!

[Paul Goelz]

Wait, hold the phone. We’re on the right track but we aren’t there quite yet.

I reset the project to 30fps progressive and Vegas now correctly displays my footage without ghosting. Every frame is displayed individually and cleanly. So far, so good. But when I render to Sony AVC, the problems start.

If I render to the stock “Internet 1280 X 720-30p” Sony AVC template (preset to 29.97 fps) with “allow source to adjust frame rate” NOT checked, the motion is smooth but the ghosts are back. I think I expected that because render frame rate does not match the source?

If I render to the stock “Internet 1280 X 720-30p” Sony AVC template (preset to 29.97 fps) with “allow source to adjust frame rate” checked, the motion is VERY jerky. If I examine the rendered output, there are some ghosts and it looks like every 2-3 frames it duplicates one. I think I also expected this since the render frame rate does not match the source?

But….. if I render to the stock “Internet 1280 X 720-30p” Sony AVC template (custom set to 30 fps to match the source), I get:

“an error occurred while trying to create the output file. ”
“The reason for the error could not be determined.”

This IS the correct render setting for a 30fps source file, right?

If I render to the stock “HDV 720-30p” MPEG2 template (preset to 30 fps), the output looks smooth and correct with no ghosting.

So what am I missing? Why can’t I render to Sony AVC at 30fps?

Paul

Paul Goelz
Rochester Hills, MI USA
paul at pgoelz dot com

[Karly Melrose]

Yeah… I get that error too. I’m sure I’ve read that other people do also, so you’re not alone. I just don’t think you can render to 30fps using Sony AVC. No idea why. But considering 30fps isn’t actually available in the frame rate list (but things like 15fps and 50fps are), I’m guessing there must be a reason.

So I’m afraid all I can advise is if you want to avoid any hint of ghosting, don’t render to Sony AVC!

Hopefully maybe someone else can offer a bit more insight?

[Paul Goelz]

Well, after trying all the permutations I can think of, I have come to the same conclusion…. 30fps and Sony AVC is a no-go. No idea why. I’ll give Sony a call and see what they say.

I can render to MPEG2 (which has a 30fps preset), but the files are about 5X the size. Uploaded to YouTube they seem to look OK but I seem to recall that a yer or so ago I did some testing and the MP4s from Sony AVC looked even better.

Or I could resurrect Adobe Premiere Elements and see how it deals with it. But I swore on a stack of RAM sticks I would never touch that piece of junk again 😉 I almost swore off video editing after trying that program.

In the end, I’m still scratching my head trying to figure out why I can’t set the project to 29.97 for 30fps assets. It should just play a tad slower, right? It is as if something is serving the 30fps asset at 30fps regardless of what the project is set to and when the next frame isn’t ready in time, Vegas superimposes part of the previous frame.

Paul

Paul Goelz
Rochester Hills, MI USA
paul at pgoelz dot com

[John Rofrano]

[Paul Goelz] “In the end, I’m still scratching my head trying to figure out why I can’t set the project to 29.97 for 30fps assets”

The way to fix this is to right-click on all of your events and go to the Properties… and check Disable Resample. This will stop the ghost frames when rendering to 29.97. The reason you can’t render to 30fps is because it’s illegal. Not supported. The standard is 29.97. You just need to conform for 30fps footage without resampling the video (which is what’s causing the ghosting).

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com

[Paul Goelz]

Well, it has been an interesting evening! I downloaded the trial version of Vegas 11 and it renders my 30fps asset to Sony AVC perfectly at 30fps. Interestingly, there wasn’t a preset for 720-30p but when I customized one, it worked great.

Time for bed. We’ll see what Sony says when I call them.

Paul

Paul Goelz
Rochester Hills, MI USA
paul at pgoelz dot com

[Paul Goelz]

The way to fix this is to right-click on all of your events and go to the Properties… and check Disable Resample. This will stop the ghost frames when rendering to 29.97. The reason you can’t render to 30fps is because it’s illegal. Not supported. The standard is 29.97. You just need to conform for 30fps footage without resampling the video (which is what’s causing the ghosting).

THAT was the solution. Thanks! I looked but could not find a way to turn off resampling by default…. is there one? And would turning off resampling globally have a down side? Most of my video is 60i but I will be working with this 30p camera as well.

And can I assume that my 30fps asset in a 29.97 project will run slightly slower when I disallow resampling?

Paul

Paul Goelz
Rochester Hills, MI USA
paul at pgoelz dot com