getting 108024p to 108060i

[Kevin Camp]

[Brad Hodgson] ” took my 108024p file, rendered with upper fields”

if it is 24p, then it won’t have fields, so there should be no field order… this may be the problem.

by you’re description, i think you have everything else right…. all you should need to do is take 24p footage into a comp of the same frame rate (note that the actual frame rate of 24p is 23.976 fps, both the footage and the comp must be 23.976 fps). then add it to the render queue, click the render settings and choose to render fields (upper 1st) and then pick a pulldown. you’ll notice that the frame rate now says 29.97, so you’re good to go.

Kevin Camp
Senior Designer
KCPQ, KMYQ & KRCW

[Brad Hodgson]

Hi all. Thanks for the responses…

Yea, I don’t think this is 24psf footage as it was initially shot 4k on the RED (which is true 24p, right?) and then finished at 1080…

So, 2 questions… if it WAS 24psf, I understand that’s 24p footage recorded in a 60i stream… so can I play that footage in a 60i comp and will it play correctly?

Yea, it ends up 60i all right in the end, problem is, has black slug added between edits randomly where there was no black frames before… am I missing something?

Thanks again!

Brad Hodgson

[Kevin Camp]

actually i misread your post… i thought you meant you had 24p footage that was rendered with upper filed first… you meant that you set that in the render settings i bet….

the other potential issue is what dave is suggesting, that you may not actually have 24p footage to start with… if you shot to tape, your footage had a pulldown. if you hadn’t accounted for that at capture then your footage may still have the pulldown in it.

if the footage you have in ae has been edited and the pulldown hasn’t been removed then you are in for the rude awakening of 24p in 29.97….

maybe you can tell us more about your footage, like where it came from (tape, file), if the pulldown was removed at capture, if it has been edited, if you can see any sign of a pulldown in the footage in ae, what the interpret footage settings are for the clip in ae….

Kevin Camp
Senior Designer
KCPQ, KMYQ & KRCW

[Brad Hodgson]

Hey Kevin,

Thanks for the quick responses! Yea, this is 108024p footage. Source was a 4k Red 24p file, resized to 2k for Color, then rendered to 24p prores for editing in FCP. So edited at 1080 23.98 in FCP, exported to a 108024p UNXD file. I brought that into AE…

File is 23.98 progressive in interpret footage menu. My goal is to convert the 24p footage to 108060i for mastering houses as we don’t have an HD deck here for layback…. I know cards can add the pulldown on the fly (my Kona card does at least) but I’d like to be knowledgable on conforming since I’m mainly a motion graphics guy who builds progressive animations, but I’m also doing more editing lately…

With SD footage on tape, I usually just capture 29.97 since it’s going back to a Dbeta SD master here… but yea… this file wasn’t from tape.

Does that help explain anything? Haha… sorry if it doesn’t… but tons of thanks for the help!

Brad Hodgson

[Brad Hodgson]

Thank you, Dave! That worked lovely!

So, one more thought… I have been circumventing the issue that I only have a bilevel sync here when I need to send an HD sequence to an NTSC for layback to dbeta for a SD master by nesting the HD sequence into an NTSC sequence in FCP then laying that back to tape…

Could this work well for accomplishing that task without nesting in FCP by following the steps you provided then just scaling to a D1 preset? I would need to set render fields to lower, obviously…then take it to FCP, drop it in a NTSC sequence and layback that to dbeta?

Would that work?

Thanks again!!!
Brad

Brad Hodgson

[Chris Wright]

24p to 60i you had frame blending problems probably because that option was accidentaly turned on. Interpreting at 23.976p fps and in a same comp, simply rendering out 29.97 wwssw upper fields should have worked fine.

And dropping that into a 59.94fps does the exact same thing, a 3-2 pulldown! But if you drop a pullown 59.94 into a 29.97 you are turning pulldowns themselves into frames again! You get a freeze frame! Step through pgdown and see for yourself.

[Brad Hodgson]

Hi Chris,

Thank you. Yea, seems to work fine now that I changed the phase of the pulldown… I don’t get the w’s and s’s here… I was assuming it was the pattern: 2:3, 2:3:3:2, etc… but am I wrong? Anyone have a link to better explain After Effects pulldown menu and when it’s best to use each pulldown?

Thank you!

Brad Hodgson

[Brad Hodgson]

Thanks Dave and all others for the responses… can I be terribly annoying and ask one more question related to the subject?

How does this all work with 720p footage shot at 24p (on p2)? 720 is always progressive, so outside of laying back to HD tape, how should a QT be prepared for broadcast delivery at 720? Do you have to do anything with a 720 24p file?

Thanks, millions…

Brad Hodgson

[Brad Hodgson]

Yea that’s awesome. I actually do have a Kona card and I edit in FCP. I can’t downconvert to our dbeta yet for an SD master as I don’t have the right sync generator yet… though the tech guy is coming soon to install one and rewire our patch bay…

I guess I’m a bit confused with the HD format sometimes… and delivery methods. The 108024p to 108060i makes sense and is an easy conform (thanks to all of your guys’ help!) since it’s still interlaced, but HD stations that broadcast 720p do so at 720 59.94, right? Wouldn’t that be broadcasted at 72060p? This is only hypothetical because I haven’t had to deliver a 720p file yet… and I guess I’m trying to understand the conform now from 720p24 at a technical level even though I have the Kona card… since at this point we don’t have an HD deck, i can only assume I will need to prepare files for outsourced HD mastering… and even though i could probably deliver the finished spot at what I edited it at and the mastering house could send it to tape and conform it on the fly, it would be nice to know how to conform the files so I know what’s going on behind the scenes. But maybe I’m just thinking way too hard about it… haha!

Brad Hodgson