follow up to 2 302s 6 mikes 2 camcorders

[John Fishback]

Looks good. Just be sure to start the reference camcorder (the one with timecode out) first, then start the slave.

John

MacPro 8-core 2.8GHz, 16 GB RAM, OS 10.8.4, QT10.1, Kona 3, Dual Cinema 23, ATI Radeon HD 5870, 24″ TV-Logic Monitor, ATTO ExpressSAS R380 RAID Adapter, PDE enclosure with 8-drive 6TB RAID 5
FCS 3 (FCP 7.0.3, Motion 4.0.3, Comp 3.5.3, DVDSP 4.2.2, Color 1.5.3)
FCP-X 10.0.9, Motion 5.0.7, Compressor 4.0.7

Pro Tools HD 10 w SYNC IO & 192 Digital I/O, Yamaha DM1000, Millennia Media HV-3C, Neumann U87, Schoeps Mk41 mics, Genelec DSP Monitors, Prima CDQ120 ISDN

[Craig Alan]

Thanks. This will give us 4 synced channels. The sound devices mixer/recorder is still on wish list. I’ll research some more on what gear to add so we can record sound to the mixer recorder and be in sync with multiple cams.

Mac Pro, macbook pro, Imacs (i7); Camcorders: Panasonic AG-HPX170/AG-HPX250P, Canon HV30/40, Sony Z7U, VX2000, PD170; FCP 6 certified; write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.

[Craig Alan]

John,

I do have the option to jam sync slave 1 and then jam sync slave 2. This would not allow for genlock daisy chain because there is only one genlock port per cam. But would there be a drift problem with a jam sync of timecode? The page from the manual does say 2 or more cameras. I do no expect more than an hour shoot with no battery changes.

Mac Pro, macbook pro, Imacs (i7); Camcorders: Panasonic AG-HPX170/AG-HPX250P, Canon HV30/40, Sony Z7U, VX2000, PD170; FCP 6 certified; write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.

[John Fishback]

I don’t remember if I mentioned this in the original thread. If you want to sync 3 or more cams the best way is to distribute both the timecode and sync from DAs (distribution amps) to each cam. I wouldn’t advise using one cam as the master with 3 or more cams. Too many things can go wrong.

If you do it this way, you should have no problems.

——
tc out——————>DA
—— |
|
——– |
sync out——->DA |
——– | |
|————- Cam 1 sync in
| |— Cam 1 timecode in
| |

etc. for as many cams you need

John

MacPro 8-core 2.8GHz, 16 GB RAM, OS 10.8.4, QT10.1, Kona 3, Dual Cinema 23, ATI Radeon HD 5870, 24″ TV-Logic Monitor, ATTO ExpressSAS R380 RAID Adapter, PDE enclosure with 8-drive 6TB RAID 5
FCS 3 (FCP 7.0.3, Motion 4.0.3, Comp 3.5.3, DVDSP 4.2.2, Color 1.5.3)
FCP-X 10.0.9, Motion 5.0.7, Compressor 4.0.7

Pro Tools HD 10 w SYNC IO & 192 Digital I/O, Yamaha DM1000, Millennia Media HV-3C, Neumann U87, Schoeps Mk41 mics, Genelec DSP Monitors, Prima CDQ120 ISDN

[Craig Alan]

again I don’t have a working budget. but just for future reference in your diagram above can I still use one of the camcorders to generate the timecode and sync?

camcorder 1 time code out/video out–>DA
>DA time code and genlock out–>camcorders 2
>DA time code and genlock out–>camcorders 3
>DA time code and genlock out–>camcorders 4

or do I also need a time code generator and other gear?

Sorry just really struggling and getting very mixed advice. Can’t believe panasonic’s tech support couldn’t help with their own camera features.

In the mean time:should I go time code out and sdi out cam 1 to timecode in and genlock in on camera 2?

And if so can I jam sync or stay plugged in.

Mac Pro, macbook pro, Imacs (i7); Camcorders: Panasonic AG-HPX170/AG-HPX250P, Canon HV30/40, Sony Z7U, VX2000, PD170; FCP 6 certified; write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.

[Bill Davis]

Out of curiosity, why do you feel you need house sync at all?

Is there a reason you need all the cameras and audio recorders following the same timecode?

If you’ve got consistent sample rates going, I haven’t seen a modern camera visibly drift over time in years.

And with today’s sophisticated NLE’s that do waveform analysis and post sync so fluidly, just what are you trying to protect against?

My laptop running FCP-X can sync 8 cameras and 8 second system audio tracks without blinking an eye – and doesn’t care a whit about whether or not timecode is present.

So I guess I’m wondering why you’re trying to do it the “old school” way?

Are you editing in a facility that still requires timecode? Just curious.

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com – video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.

[John Fishback]

As Bill points out, it’s not technically necessary to distribute the timecode. The sync is what keeps it all together. Still, I like timecode which helps me navigate clips, if necessary.

You can use cam 1 as a master for additional cams. You’d still need DAs to break out to each of the other cams. It’s still important to start cam 1 first then the others.

John

MacPro 8-core 2.8GHz, 16 GB RAM, OS 10.8.4, QT10.1, Kona 3, Dual Cinema 23, ATI Radeon HD 5870, 24″ TV-Logic Monitor, ATTO ExpressSAS R380 RAID Adapter, PDE enclosure with 8-drive 6TB RAID 5
FCS 3 (FCP 7.0.3, Motion 4.0.3, Comp 3.5.3, DVDSP 4.2.2, Color 1.5.3)
FCP-X 10.0.9, Motion 5.0.7, Compressor 4.0.7

Pro Tools HD 10 w SYNC IO & 192 Digital I/O, Yamaha DM1000, Millennia Media HV-3C, Neumann U87, Schoeps Mk41 mics, Genelec DSP Monitors, Prima CDQ120 ISDN

[Craig Alan]

Thanks John,

So I can sync without using timecode? Exactly what do I hook up with what? At this point I just want to know what my how to options are. I thought cams were synced using timecode.

If I just need a DA and not a AJA Gen10 or a time code generator, what’s the best bang for the buck and how do I hook it up?

Every time I think I have a handle on this, someone else points out that it either won’t work very well or it wasn’t needed to begin with.

Mac Pro, macbook pro, Imacs (i7); Camcorders: Panasonic AG-HPX170/AG-HPX250P, Canon HV30/40, Sony Z7U, VX2000, PD170; FCP 6 certified; write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.

[Craig Alan]

Hi Bill,

This is why:

https://forums.creativecow.net/thread/30/871749

Please read thread and tell me what you think.

Mac Pro, macbook pro, Imacs (i7); Camcorders: Panasonic AG-HPX170/AG-HPX250P, Canon HV30/40, Sony Z7U, VX2000, PD170; FCP 6 certified; write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.

[John Fishback]

As Bill said, you don’t need timecode. The cams are synced by the reference sync. The sync keeps each frame of video in sync on all the cams. Sync doesn’t care about timecode. Timecode is a convenience as you can go to the same code on every clip and see/hear the same thing. If you do not use timecode, you have to use an app like Plural Eyes that “listens” to all the audio tracks and syncs all the clips by lining up the video. Of course it’s important to have the same good audio on all cams. This might not work for you as it sounds like you’ll want to use different audio on your cam’s tracks. If that is the case, then you need timecode for the NLE to successfully assemble the synced timeline. BTW, many NLEs can sync (like Plural Eyes) with just the audio. In that case you wouldn’t need Plural Eyes. Again, I think it would be a good idea to hire a video engineer or someone in your area who’s done a multi-cam shoot before to coach you through the first project.

John

MacPro 8-core 2.8GHz, 16 GB RAM, OS 10.8.4, QT10.1, Kona 3, Dual Cinema 23, ATI Radeon HD 5870, 24″ TV-Logic Monitor, ATTO ExpressSAS R380 RAID Adapter, PDE enclosure with 8-drive 6TB RAID 5
FCS 3 (FCP 7.0.3, Motion 4.0.3, Comp 3.5.3, DVDSP 4.2.2, Color 1.5.3)
FCP-X 10.0.9, Motion 5.0.7, Compressor 4.0.7

Pro Tools HD 10 w SYNC IO & 192 Digital I/O, Yamaha DM1000, Millennia Media HV-3C, Neumann U87, Schoeps Mk41 mics, Genelec DSP Monitors, Prima CDQ120 ISDN