Final Cut Pro Multi-Cam Alternative?

[Bjarki Gudjonsson]

[Per Holmes] “One can perhaps understand Avid because a studio-based multicamera shoot can easily have continuous sources. “

So that’s a valid excuse for Avid, but not FCP? And you’re still thinking about switching back? Aren’t you in the same place either way?

I think the biggest problem I see with this thing is the needles black rendering. That just bites. So I have an idea that I thought you might try. Take one of your 45 min sequences, which has only 2 minutes of footage.

Instead of having a black slug on the rest of the timeline, create a 1 min. black slug QuickTime using the same codec. “Black” your timeline with those files, and replace it only with the media you need to use where you need it. You should be able to export that as a reference file and it should take next to no space.

The only problem you’re gonna have here is the alternating formats, but as long as you have black slugs exported for each, you should be alright.

Hope this helps you!

Bjarki

[Mitch Jacobson]

OK, Here is an “out there idea”. This might help but, it will take grouping manually. Maybe your quick keys can help you there. Basically, you are going to build a sync map and replace all the sections that can be a multi-clip with a multiclip.

You could use any of the described methods to get your syncmap together but, instead of outputting new clips for every angle or making ref movies, you may try what I call the “Thrash Group”.

Once you have a sync map In Final Cut Pro, with your clips layered vertically, you can add edits where groups are possible and grab the clips right out of the timeline and throw them into a bin for “automatic in-point grouping”. I call this the ThrashGroup Why? Uh, because I just think it sounds cool.

What’s the time savings behind this? Because the new clips have automarked in-points, you wouldn’t need to insert a common Alt timecode to group to (like Tim’s Bulletproof MultiGroup), nor do you have to go through the steps of matchframing and marking ins and out for each clip. Huge. The new in-point works perfectly. And no new media is generated.

Making a ThrashGroup:

1. Create a sequence sync map with angles stacked on tracks vertically.

2. If dual-system audio: match to timecode as a base.

3. If timecode doesn’t match up, sync by hand or use sequence liner or PluralEyes. Use markers or an audio cue or what ever…just get everything in sync on your timeline.

4. In timeline, add edits cutting across all the synced tracks to mark the groups. Use arrow keys to quickly jump and Add edits to the beginning and end of each clip where there is a timecode break. You are essentially using add edits to mark all sections that are “group-able”.

5. Pull out all clips between the add edits from sync map by lasso-click-dragging them to the Browser or a bin. This will make new master clips group-able by the first frame as in points. No need to mark anything. (I pre build a quick folder set – one for each set of grouped clips. This where I also save the resulting multiclip.)

6. Make multi-clips from new clips.

7. Drag into track above the original stacked clips. They should be the same length and right in sync.

8. Check for sync and matching timecode. Multiclips are ready to edit.

Now you could make a clean copy of this sequence with only the multiclips in the timeline ready to edit.

It’s not a perfect solution but may work for you situation….

Mitch Jacobson
Producer/Editor Avid & FCP
New York City

[Per Holmes]

Hi there,

Yes, I’d be in (almost) the same place with Avid, so I’m not considering switching back, I’m going to gamble and keep project in FCP. I only suggested that it might have been a bit more understandable that Avid assumed single clips because many things in Avid are tied directly to studio-workflows, but really it’s just as lame of Avid to assume unbroken sources. Especially reality-type programming generates a lot of concurrent sources that start and stop, but I guess people typically just edit it as regular narrative editing anyway, since the goal is to compress time enormously. I, however, won’t be compressing time, I’ll have runs of 2-3 minutes where I’m pretty much real-time. But I still can’t control all the sources, or to put it another way, I can’t stop the event for sync.

Doing a black-element as a separate QT element in a QT reference is actually a brilliant idea, but QT really has issues when reference files get moved around. So I’ve abandoned the idea of QT reference because it places the footage outside of any media management.

I thought for a while that I could perhaps force the production to have longer continuous, but I remember that a key thing for some shoots is to have a lot of cameras going around, many different formats (although everything will be 720p/24p), and so even if I enforced a continuous-clip policy, I actually couldn’t edit in multiclip anyway. So it’s really not available to me.

In another thread, I’ve posted a QuicKeys solution that gives you some level of intuitive control of multicam editing by assisting you in more easily copying segments from the lower tracks up to a high track where you build the final output. I think this is the solution I’ll have to use.

Best,

Per

[Per Holmes]

Hi,

I think that this is a splendid idea, and very clear thinking! Yes, there will be many times where it’s totally possibly to make multiclip groups, even with adhoc footage — because in practice, everybody will tend to be shooting when something interesting is happening, and everybody will probably be stopped when nothing is happening. So even without asking for it, there might be many segments that are fully multiclip compatible.

My main issue is that I almost can’t avoid using people with more than one type of camera. I’m personally P2 with a couple of cameras, but there’s for example a person I want to bring in because he is reliable, can work on partial deferment etc., but uses one of the Sony cameras. However, his 720p/24 footage intercuts perfectly in FCP and plays in real-time along with the P2 footage, and looks the same as well, so I almost have to include him on the list of possible shooters without having to rent a HVX camera for him every time. This is an example, but I run into this a lot.

I therefore almost feel that the ability to pick from a larger pool of shooters is most important, and then go for the QuicKeys method of editing, which I’ve described in another thread.

But very clear thinking!

Cheers,

Per

[Per Holmes]

By the way, I said almost impossible in Avid, because someone has actually found a way to use broken sources in multiclip in Avid. While it seems to work, it’s just so stupidly manual that I can’t see myself doing it 200-300 times.

After having editing in FCP for a while now, I still do miss my Avid, but I feel like I have to pragmatic that FCP *does* allow me to produce all the same results, and mere convenience is not enough justification for unloading an FCP system and upgrading my Avid MC to HD. I’m actually very happy with FCP overall.

Best,

Per

[Bjarki Gudjonsson]

I work with QT references alot, and you shouldn’t have any problems as long as you keep them in the same folder as your sources.

Good luck with your project!

B.

[Per Holmes]

Hi,

That’s great to know, thanks! I don’t have much experience with QT Refs, beyond seeing them freak out a couple of times, but that was along time ago.

Best,

Per

[Dennis Radeke]

Per,

Premiere Pro only has four sources which you already know. However, you can use anything as a camera – even another sequence. You can also mix and match different types of media without any penalty if that’s useful to you.

As for Premiere’s ability to handle large projects, we are fairly dependent on a decent amount of RAM to provide robust stability for truly large projects. This is probably true for FCP and AVid as well. Good news is with CS4, we are optimized for 64 bits meaning we can address much more than 4GB of RAM and use more than 2 of your CPU cores (if you’re using a Mac Tower).

If your project is large, then 8GB is a minimum and more is better. Given the trend of the industry, it’s never a bad thing to go out an buy more memory.

The latest version of PRemiere Pro is 4.21 which added native support (true native) for AVC-Intra.

Good luck whatever you decide to do.

Dennis

[Mitch Jacobson]

Update: to #5 above: Don’t “lasso / drag/drop” the clips…copy and paste to a bin instead. I have found that lasso-ing has intermitant problems.

Mitch Jacobson
Producer/Editor: Avid & FCP
New York City