Film Project on MC 3.0

[Job Ter burg]

[Jane Anderson] “6: The project setting should I believe be 24P ?”

24 PAL, correct.

[Jane Anderson] “7: Logging the keycode or hopefully a FLEX file – any directions here (really basic to the complex stuff – never done it before)”

Here’s what I do. I get Flex and or ALE files from telecine. If you get Flex, use Avid Log Exchange to convert those files to ALE, select only to log V, not A1 nor A2. If you get ALE’s, open them in a text editor, and change all VA1A2 entries into V. (You may not even have A1A2 for the events if the Beta tapes are made without sound syncing in telecine).
I open the ALE to check for the _exact_ tapename in the database entries (not the tapename at the top, in the header, but the tapename as described per event).
Then I capture the entire reels of TK rushes in one go. I assign the _exact_ tapename as found in the ALE.
After capture, I select the long masterclips, choose File-Import and under options, under Shot Log, select “Merge with known sources and automatically create subclips”. This will creat subclips from the long reels based on the TK log (ALE). If the camera records Timecode, this will likely generate a subclip for each take for each scene. If the camera did not run Timecode, you may only get the reels broken up into labrolls or camrolls, and you will have to manually break up/sync up V&A.

[Jane Anderson] “8: Audio setting for the project is where I start to get nervous. I want to import the audio as an OMF sequence from the hard disk back-up. The 24fps timecode will match the digital slate for sound sync.”
Will they be syncing this stuff up in Nuendo or something then? Usually, I get BWF-files (WAV files with metadata) that I import, with metadata into MC.

[Jane Anderson] “9: If the audio is already at 24fps, but the image will be slowed to 24fps by the film composer – how does it work? I trust it will work, but…?”

The Avid has two types of 24p PAL project, one assumes that picture and sound are both coming in at 25fps (not your option), the other assumes that picture comes in at 25fps, but sound comes in at 100% (your option). It will also be referred to as sound at Video Rate (>100%) and sound at Film Rate (=100%).

[Jane Anderson] “10: Using the auto sync function (?) – I need to subclip every take in order to ‘marry’ the image and sound – any instructions here would be very helpful.”

Several options exist. If picture and sound were both recorded with common timecode, you can simply select each picture and sound (sub)clip and AutoSync based on timecode. For that to work, you need to modify the ALE, so that Sound TC and Auxiliary TC1 are reversed in the desciptor. This ONLY applies if both sound AND picture have recorded TC, and this TC is logged in Telecine.
If you don’t have timecode, you can either manually search for the sync mark (sticks, hopefully) in each V and A (sub)clip, and the choose AutoSync and select to Autosync based on Mark Ins.
Or you can throw all your footage in sequence, and shot by shot align the appropriate sound under it. Then create and label subsequences for each take (exclude any edits!), then select all these subsequences and hit Autosync. It will convert the subsequences into Sync Clips.

[Jane Anderson] “11: Out put settings for the edit for audio post – just play out the edit (Film Composer running at 24fps) and SP deck recording 25fps?”

Yes. The SP deck will always record 625/50i, and the signal on the output of the Avid will always be 625/50i, but the playback speed of the sequence _within_ the 625/50i signal can be 24p-with-PAL-pulldown (slight hickups every half of a second) or 25fps (without pulldown, 1 frame of film is 1 frame of video).
For picture post, you need to send them tapes _without_ this pulldown. In the digital cut tool, you will see the ability to playout at either 24fps or 25fps, it’s that simple, fortunately!
The past few years, I haven’t done any Beta playouts for sound post, though. I usually send them a QT export in DVPAL at 24.00fps. This will result in files of around 4GB per reel, at a nice quality, and without any pulldown.

[Jane Anderson] “12: If I want to burn in a visual footage and frame count, will it be correct?”

Yes, but you have to think this through. With the v3.0 BITC generator, you’ll have the ability to select multiple counters. Make sure you choose the 24TC if you want true running time indicators.

Also, if you create a 24p PAL project, go to your Film Settings and set the edit play rate to 24fps. Somehow it seems to want to default to 25fps, creating the wrong playback speed during editing.

And second, the Master TC counter in 24p PAL project defaults to TC1, which is a 25TC counter. You need to manually change this one back to TC24 each time you launch the Avid. It also determines how I/O duration is calculated, I think.

[Jane Anderson] “13: Any help with generating the cut list would be great – should I give the lab an edl as well?”

I haven’t had to make a film cutlist for 6 years. All labs and DI houses here (Netherlands) seem to prefer EDLs. So check with post whether or not they really need a cutlist, and if so, what type. FilmScribe can generate a whole bunch of different lists. I used to work with a neg cutter that could import ALE cutlists in her system, but that system was _very_ sensitive to what entries could and could not be in that database file.

Don’t hesitate if you have any further questions.

In general, I think it would be nicer for you to have someone with a little 24p experience around, be it an assistant or a colleague. But you should not worry too much, since it is basically very simple, and very much tried and proven to work.

[Michael Phillips]

Thanks Job for such a complete response! I have one litle trick for your ALE filel track editing. AvidLogExchange can take an ALE in as a source and process to ALE again – so you can remove the A tracks via the option, clean or relax overlaps, etc without doing a search replace edit.

Michael

Michael Phillips

[Job Ter burg]

Thanks Michael. You are of course right. However, I believe that ALE does not allow for the necessary header conversion (from Sound TC to AuxTC), so that’s probably why I’ve always done these two steps in a text editor.

The thing is that the Aaton InDaw/KeyLink generated ALE/FLex will put the film/audio timecode it reads from the Evertz reader into a Sound TC column. But the Avid does not accept a Sound TC entry for V-only clips (they need to have A tracks plus a Sound Roll entry). I’ve actuallly been wondering why this is the way it is. TK operators have told me they can’t do it any differently.

[Jane Anderson]

Thanks Job so much for your detailed reply, I am very grateful that you would take the time!
I wish I had an assistant, but I don’t – I’m the one with the 24 fps editing (Steenbeck!) – but I will follow your instructions!
There is no timecode on the camera and I’m not entirely sure I can get a flex file from telecine.
Thanks too to Michael, and Job thank you again!
Jane

[Job Ter burg]

Do find out what the TK house can give you. Sometimes they are offering to provide a take-based Flex or ALE, even if the cam did not record TC. If that is not an option, you’ll have to manually subclip, which is not too bad, especially if you have to manually sync up as well. Let us know how things turn out for you.

[Jane Anderson]

Hi Job, and other Avid experts!

I’m in the middle of the shoot and syncing rushes every 2 days or so. Things look great, the audio syncs 🙂 and I’m sub clipping all the takes once they are synch’d up.

I plan to do a test to make sure I’ve followed the instructions correctly. I did in fact work from broadcast.wav files, the OMF transfer wouldn’t work. It’s actually ok as wav files because they are nicely labeled and take me pretty quickly to the next slate.

I hope you can help me with a couple more things. For the test – I plan to

1: Output a rough edit of a scene to SP beta. I think I can play out the edit at 24fps.
2: I’ll output the same edit as a QT 24fps – I hope there is a setting that says 24fps?
3: I’ll output an EDl of the audio edl, and get the audio guys to re-conform directly from the same source that I used.
4: I’ll OMF the audio I’m editing with.

In theory – they should all produce the same result… I think? I still don’t really understand if the audio I work with has been sped up to match the 25fps tc images, or not. Sorry – feel really dumb about this. My wav files, I brought in with 24fps timecode – since that’s what it was recorded with. But I have no frame 12 timecode, it all goes frame 9,10,11 then 13, 14…

So what do you think of my test path? They’ll be working in Nuendo. Once I finish the edit, I want to be able to OMF my cutting copy audio for the final mix, not re-lay from the original source recording.

———————————————————————

Next thing which you or others might be able to help me with…

I have this new PC (quad something?) computer with MC version 3 software. It’s running through a Mo Jo we had previously used with DV Express.

I have been editing on a very very old computer, with version 8 point something MC software – but it was with the meridan box and scuzzi (sp?) drives. And it was better!

It’s the response time on the new system that’s driving me crazy. Previously, if I hit stop – it was exactly the frame I wanted. Now, even with this super computer – I hit stop and it’s always 2 to 4 frames off. I can’t edit intuitively at all.

Any thoughts on this? I tried a 25fps project on the new computer (thinking 24fps might be the issue), but it was the same thing. So – any ideas if it’s the MoJo, the non scuzzi drives, or….?

One suggestion is that an upgrade to the MoJo DNX, because it has 3 types of processing, might help. I just want to be able to hit stop and have it stop on the exact frame.

Thank you Job, hope you will continue to be a fountain of knowledge and help 🙂

Jane

[Job Ter burg]

– I think I can play out the edit at 24fps.

Yes, you can. In the digital cut tool, you can select to output at either 24 or 25 fps.
For regular everyday editing, the Edit Play Rate in your Film Settings should also be at 24fps (this might rather unfortunately still default to 25).

– 2: I’ll output the same edit as a QT 24fps – I hope there is a setting that says 24fps?

Yes. I always use DV Quicktimes. You can go into the QT export settings and choose 24fps as the frame rate.

– EDL & Reconform + OMF – they should all produce the same result… I think?

They should

– I still don’t really understand if the audio I work with has been sped up to match the 25fps tc images, or not.

If everything syncs up if you do a straight import, they can’t have been sped up.

– My wav files, I brought in with 24fps timecode – since that’s what it was recorded with. But I have no frame 12 timecode, it all goes frame 9,10,11 then 13, 14…

That is correct. The source TC for every element in a PAL project (be it 24 or 25) is considered to be a true 24TC. In order to reflect 24TC sourced audio in such an environment, the Avid uses a pulldown, where it will skip the 12th frame, then counts all the way up to 24, 00, 01) therefore maintaining the right TC within a 25 counter. If you need the Avid to reflect a true 24 TC, you should copy the Source TC into the TC24 column, and select “Copy” (not “convert”). This 24TC will have a 12th frame, and will also flip from 23 to 00 to 01, etc.

[Job Ter burg]

BTW, your remarks about responsiveness surprise me. MC with Adrenaline was pretty notorious for exactly what you are describing. Less so for Mojo, and not at all so for Nitris.
However, with v3, responsiveness has greatly improved on all systems. I have never seen faster flying Avids.
That said, most Adrenaline editors I know got used to the different response rather quickly.
HTH.

[Jane Anderson]

Hi Job –

Thank you again for all your assistance.

I wonder if ‘repsonsiveness’ might be a misleading way of describing my problem…

I just want to hit stop (space bar ) and have it stop exactly on the frame. On the old Meridan system I could, but now it is inaccurate.

Possibly related – is another thing, when I fast forward or rewind through either recorder or player side, by hitting J or L multiple times – the picture hangs (freezes) – I have to slow down the FF or Rewind to see the image in motion again. The old Meridan was smooth even up to the fastest FF and Rewind speeds.

Thanks again, I’ll sleep better tonight 🙂

Jane

[Job Ter burg]

Jane,
Can you find out the exact system specifications? This sounds like the internal video card is not up to the task. Maybe it just has the wrong driver version.