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FCPX or R15?
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After reading this thread I’m so glad I don’t have to shoot or record anything, nor worry about codecs in the slightest. I’m not sure I could keep up these days. The last thing I shot was on a 16mm in film school.
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[Robin S. Kurz] “Just as I finished shooting a job (3rd) on an iPhone X in 4K with an DJI Osmo 2. The client was ecstatic over the results. Go figure.”
Why did you decide to go with the iPhone X as the camera, and what other cameras were being considered for this shoot? And what type of project was it? Corporate video, commercial, preroll for web, documentary/film?
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Michael Hancock
Editor -
[Robin S. Kurz] “Either the client trusts your judgment (and the results prove it) or they don’t.
“I don’t know about that Robin. CBS, NBC, ESPN, these Networks all have camera’s that they consider “acceptable” when they hire for a job. They wouldn’t make an exception for you either. With those clients it would be out of my hands and yours also.
Look, it’s working for you go with it. Believe me, if I could get away with shooting with my phone on most jobs I would do it in a heartbeat. I would love to save the cash.
Was the iPhone your primary camera on the job and what type of footage were you shooting with it? Who was the client?
Some of the things I like about my camera are, up to 10 picture profiles stored, SDI out, HDMI out, controls like audio adjustments on the side of the camera, XLR in, four options of peaking in the viewfinder, pre-set A and B WB on the side of the camera. The peaking really comes in handy on a bright day game.
[Robin S. Kurz] “not single person has complained that anything shot with it anyway looked “cheap” or somehow sub-par.”
I’m sure it doesn’t look cheap or sub-par, but most of the shots I see with the iPhone don’t have that shallow depth that many want.
Even in the spot that Olive posted (Looks nice btw) Everything in the shot tends to look sharp. (like a small sensor)
The shirts in the back look as sharp as him.
I have not shot with the X, how easy is it to lock on the subject and really control that tight focus? That’s the kind of thing they want. I want it also.
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I think the analogy works ok. But sketches that Picasso did on a napkin with a pencil are worth less than his canvas works. They are still art, just not…as fulfilling.
Co-owner at Pollen Studio
http://www.pollenstudio.co.uk -
[Tony West] “I’m sure it doesn’t look cheap or sub-par, but most of the shots I see with the iPhone don’t have that shallow depth that many want.”
Careful here.
In portrait mode, the fake shallow depth of field that the dual lens iPhones can pull off can be pretty darn convincing.
Here’s a shot I took of Sam Mestman at the Creative Summit from 2016 right after the capability was introduced with the effect on and off.
And one of a series of depth effect portraits I took at ComiCon 6 months later.
How long before this hits video and it’s even harder to tell if it’s a lens or an algorithm?
Creator of XinTwo – https://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery. -
[Oliver Peters] “(Although you could explain what “high-resolution” paint is, since actual paint – oil, latex, etc. as opposed to printing – doesn’t have a resolution, like dpi.)”
????????♂️
Yeah, Oliver, I of course meant it LITERALLY. Everyone knows that’s what a metaphor/analogy is. Bonus points for you also. ????????
[Oliver Peters] “Yes, content is important, but if the delivery and quality are so poor that it takes you out of the experience, then content takes a back seat and the message is lost.”
So you’ve seen what I shot in context and aren’t just throwing a blind, presumptuous blanket of unfounded imputations? And you’ve of course seen e.g. “Unsane” to be the judge of “messages lost”? Of course.
[Oliver Peters] “If you use a tool that you believe is better, then regardless of whether or not it is, your work will benefit accordingly, because of your own headspace at the artist.”
First it’s (essentially) “No way, they suck!“, then it’s “your work will benefit accordingly“… practically in the same sentence. Got it.
[Oliver Peters] “if an iPhone 6S is really equal to an Alexa or 35mm film”
Feel free to actually quote exactly where anyone made that “BS!!1!” claim.
– RK
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[Bill Davis] “In portrait mode, the fake shallow depth of field that the dual lens iPhones can pull off can be pretty darn convincing.
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True it’s stunning and I use it all the time, but if you look closer then you can see that the edges are still slightly soft around the mask, I think it will be a while before we get this on video in any way that is convincing
Did you know the COW has an \”ignore\” feature?
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I don’t want to be that guy but you’re not suggesting that those shots pass as being from a professional DSLR are you? The one with the girl with the pink hair doesn’t appear to be in focus anywhere. The one with the guy has some small areas of focus but the fall off is unpleasant to look at. The earlier photos you showed look like real nice camera phone shots (sidebar: why are we limiting this to iphones when they are not even best in class?) but in no way do they look like they were taken with a professional dslr. There’s nothing wrong with that look but everyone with a camera phone knows they can take the same shot. They won’t have the same confidence they can replicate the shot when they see a beautiful DSLR image.
Sure, an incredibly skilled pro, in exactly the right conditions, can pull off something that looks pro with a camera phone but surely it’s just easier to get a professional camera that will hit the look you’re after with a lot less skill and a lot less effort?
This is a strange argument. Ultimately if you can get away with using a phone, great! But I’m finding it hard to get my head around the idea that we’re arguing that camera phones hold up to pro gear. It’s hard to even justify their use as a “democratisation of the medium” thing when you can get amazing Black Magic gear for basically nothing these days.
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[Bill Davis] “How long before this hits video and it’s even harder to tell if it’s a lens or an algorithm?”
How don’t you already have that without any algorithm? These are two random frames from a couple of my iPhone videos (merely scaled by 50%, otherwise untouched and even taken with the built-in camera app for a change, so “sloppy” compared to what is possible otherwise):
… with a nice smooth rack focus here and there. Yeah. The client just HATED it. What a moron for not sending me home quickly!
Would the highlights have been less blown out with my URSA MP (or even with simply more than just available light) and had EVEN LESS DOF (that I don’t even want)? Sure. As well as making getting the same pictures exponentially more of a PITA. So I guess given that, these images are of course crap and totally unacceptable for a “true pro!”, right? … ????????
That elevated mare of certain people is really starting to get very old and hungry.
Whatever. They can continue believing what they want, ignoring objective facts. No skin off my back nor money out of my pocket. Quite the opposite. ????
– RK
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[Tony West] “CBS, NBC, ESPN, these Networks all have camera’s that they consider “acceptable” when they hire for a job.”
Good for them. I just don’t see why that should concern me or any of the 99+% of editors (I’m not a cameraman, but them, too) for whom it’s just as unlikely they’ll ever had anything to do with them. If you do, then sure.
[Tony West] “Believe me, if I could get away with shooting with my phone on most jobs I would do it in a heartbeat. I would love to save the cash.”
Guess what? The clients love it, too, and still getting exactly what they’re looking for. Go figure. ????
[Tony West] “Was the iPhone your primary camera on the job and what type of footage were you shooting with it?”
I’m talking various projects across the board of genres. In one of them the iPhone was in fact the primary, yes. But then, again, I don’t see how that’s really relevant, since the client didn’t care (or even know) either way and had absolutely no complaints as far as the image etc. was concerned. What else should I be caring about? Praise and back-patting from my super-pro peers because I ignorantly snubbed my nose at the notion? ????
[Tony West] “Some of the things I like about my camera are, up to 10 picture profiles stored, SDI out, HDMI out, controls like audio adjustments on the side of the camera, XLR in, four options of peaking in the viewfinder, pre-set A and B WB on the side of the camera. “
Near none of which I personally ever need on a shoot. But if and when I do, I just go with the URSA MP. But mostly because I get ProRes direct off the camera, making my life in post that little bit easier and for the one or other FX plate and the likes.
But without it I still have: Variable Speed Pull Focus, Variable Speed Targeted Zoom, Sync Audio Frame Rate Presets for 24,25, 30, 48, 50 and 60fps, High Speed Frame Rates of anywhere from 60 to 240 fps, 4K, 3K, 2K, 1080, 720 HD or 540 SD, Various Aspect Ratios (2.59:1, 2.35:1, 2.20:1 etc. etc. etc.), can use 3rd Party 35mm adapters, a Moondog Labs Anamorphic Adapter if needed, have Uncompressed or Compressed audio (AIFF, Linear PCM or AAC), Audio metering, Audio Gain Control, Headphone monitoring, Stereo recording support, 100mbps at 4K or 50mbps at 1080p… never mind manual Temperature, Tint, ISO, Shutter Speed, Exposure, BiasFocus etc. etc. etc.
And all of that without a flight case and ZERO assembly required. With me even when I don’t even NEED a camera (or think so beforehand and am proven wrong by some unexpected situation).
Not enough? Unprofessional? Oh well! Surprising how little of a rodent’s backend I could give. ????
[Tony West] “but most of the shots I see with the iPhone don’t have that shallow depth that many want.”
Never ONCE in 20+years of production has a client come to me and said “Make me a film… and be sure to have REALLY SHALLOW DOF!“. And if that were in fact a requirement (even from ME, not them) then, again, I’d go with the URSA MP and my primes (but also not shoot myself). Done. But if I know what I’m doing I can get wonderfully and appropriate low DOF with an iPhone as well (as seen in my other post)!
It’s called “horses for courses”. I at least have the trust and confidence of my clients that I’ll tell the best possible story for them, even if I decided to use an old DV cam. Clearly others don’t and therefore need to hide behind specs and ports and pixels (no, not you). Bummers.
– RK
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